Thyra "Danebod" Haraldsdatter, Dronning af (Vest)Danmark - Who was the father of Thyra Danebod?

Started by Dr. Peder Dahlman (Kjørl) on Sunday, June 23, 2013
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I agree with you, peder, thyras father can have not been that Harald klak, if he had been dead for 50 years when she was born, you have a Point there, but maybe a relative of his or so. åsa

by the way, athelstan was the brother of Edward the elder, as far as I have seen at wikipedia , but it can be also his son, i dont know.

I have cut her ancestry since her ancestry is uncertain it should be like this. Genealogy is a science, and sciences is all about proving that connections are correct in our genealogy. In this case there are not enough proof to support that Thyra is the daughter of Harald Klak. To those of you disagreeing , please come up with some proof.

Thanks, Remi. As part of cutting her parents, you need to summarize the possibilities and arguments in the About Me.

Will try to do after my vacation. Give me a few weeks......

Maybe Jason, Jason Scott Wills have done some of the job in the english version....

He has atleast changed some of her facts like her names. Please, Jason, state what you did and why?

i removed england as her birth place as its not supported, and put Þyrvé in her name field, moved Thyra and title to display name

Jeg har tilladt mig, at rette navnet på Thyra Danebod i hendes profil. Det indsatte navn var ikke identisk med informationerne på Wikileaks og Kongernes Jelling.
Det er virkelig beklageligt, at man ikke søger informationerne de rette steder her på Geni!

Probably better if we had waited to cut the link until after the debate was summarized on the profile.

I locked the name field so we don't get into an edit war. If we need to make changes, let's talk about it.

Thats OK for me! - Let us ask "Kongernes" if there are some questions?

Ole Kristian Moustgaard, can you read through and write a summarzation of her possible ancestry? I think you know this better than I do. If you have problems writing an English Version, I can translate it for you.

Elna Kirstine Plougmann please don't add any father or mother to Thyra "Dannebod" Dronning af Danmark unless you are 100% certain that it is correct.

Elna, vær så snill å ikke legg til far eller mor til Thyra uten at du er 100% sikker på at far og/eller mor er korrekt.

I created a new profile for the Unknown Father of Thyra Danebod, made it a Master Profile, and locked it to prevent changes.

A gentle reminder to everyone -- it is a bad idea to make changes to a profile contrary to the discussion. The profile should reflect the evidence, not the personal opinion of any particular user. If you have objections or want to present evidence, you should do it in the discussion.

This is wrong. Her parents is technically not unknown, the fact is that we have actually have two sources, - they just tell two different things.
The only argument for cutting for example Harald Klak is the fabricated dates on his profile

The birthsurname of 3 of Thyra's children is "Jelling".

From where is this information?

Whatever we call Thyra's father "Harald / Æthelred" or "Unknown father of Thyra", it is still her father.
Unless you norwegian genealogists have other historical facts!

This is why it was premature to cut the relationship, even though it is clear the relationship needed to be cut. Without the summary, it is easy to get sidetracked by other arguments.

There is a conflict in the sources. Saxo and Snorri name different fathers, so the truth is unknown unless someone finds a very clear reason to prefer one of them and to resolve the problems with it. One of the problems to be resolved is that both fathers are impossible.

Snorri (Heimskringla) and Jómsvíkinga saga say Thyra was a daughter of Harald 'Klak' Halfdansson, king in Jutland, who died about 846/852, but that’s not possible. Thyra’s husband Gorm "den Gamle", dansk konge was born about 890/900, so she cannot have been the daughter of a man who died in 852. She would have been 50 years older than her husband.

Saxo says Thyra was a daughter of Aethelred, King of England, and sister of Aethelstan. But, Ethelred I 'the Pious', king of Wessex & Kent (c837-871) is too early – Thyra would have been 20 years older than her husband. Æthelred "the Unready", King of the English (c968-1016) is too late. The story and chronology fits Æthelstan 'the Glorious', 1st King of the English (c893/5-939), but Aethelstan’s father was Edward I "the Elder", king of The Anglo-Saxons not Aethelred. So, something is wrong here, too.

There are theories about how Thyra could have been daughter of a different Harald. There are theories about she could have been a daughter of a different Aethelred. And, there are theories about how she could have been a sister of Aethelstan but still be called a daughter of Aethelred.

These theories are all just academic fun. There is no clear answer. Thyra’s father is unknown.

@Remi - you removed the father Harald / Æthelred.

Are you 100 % sure that is NOT her father or are this just another curatorattack ?

Elna, please read what I wrote above. There is evidence that her father was Harald, and there is evidence that her father was Aethelred, but there are substantial problems with both statements.

We can't even be sure that the only possibilities are Harald and Aethelred. Saxo said her brother was Athelstan, which would mean that her father was Edward.

We are 100% certain that we do not know her father.

No, Elna, I am not 100% sure that Harald / Æthelred is not the father of Thyra. He may be, but I don't know.

Are you 100% sure that he IS her father?

Harald and Aethelred are two different men. We can be 100% that they were not both her father ;)

@ Remi Trygve Pedersen:

You did the right thing when removing Thyra's father.

@ Justin Swanström:

Ditto! We are 100% certain no one knows her father. :-) Ha ha, that was funny "we can be 100% that they were not both her father". :-)

Best regards,
Peder Dahlman

I added a quick summary to Thyra's profile. It still needs work, but it seemed best to get something up quickly.

It's a good summary presenting all the relevant information in a clear and unbiased fashion.
Might i suggest the remainder of the About Me be deleted as it looks to be predominantly nothing more than cut & paste from Wikipedias in several diffenet languages.

I'm not sure we have general agreement yet about what to do with Wikipedia entries. Clean up and consolidate? Remove the text but keep the links? One frustration I've seen is that Geni retains old copies of Wikipedia entries that have since been corrected.

Justin one thing I do when cleaning up overviews is save them as a text document on the fly named overview - OLD.

Sometimes it's worthwhile to have the Wiki narrative - I wouldn't try & impose a general rule, more what you prefer to see on your curated profiles.

I would think for Thyra it's important to include links to the different Wiki language pages, and if Alex likes your overview, that's more than good enough for me.

Harald Klak is said in the sagas to have a couple of daughters, non of witch is named Thyra. According to the scientist at the museum of Jelling it is most likely that her father was a Harald, thought nothing can prove that it is Harald Klak. The research state that it might have been a minor chief somewhere in Jytland.
To the part of being English in origin, she can still be danish. The Danelagen with the dansih settlers was profound at this point. So just because she is said to have come from their does not meen she is English.
This is what I got from the historians of the Jelling Museum.
Not that it concludes anything.


I also think it is a good summary and as far as I can see nothing is left out. A verry good job, now we just have to wait for the information from historians, might take a while but I think what Justin have made is the way it schould be as no source at the momment brings the correct information.


I Bellive that you can´t be sure abot Tyra danneblod.I read your comment.But its only speculations.I Don´t Think its possible to find out the true.So let it be.One day the right fader turning up..So patientce whith this profile.

Aethelthiyth (Audrey) Edwardsdatter, as an alias for Thyra Haraldsdotter
would fit the guessing work.

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