Ann Jans, of Laackervelt - How many inaccuracies before worthless?

Started by Alex Moes on Monday, December 5, 2016
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Erica and Alex

In this story there too much maybe's.
And there too much oh the have the same patronymic, then they are maybe family.

So what i said earlier you have to have some original documents or church books where you can find some evidence who belongs to who.

Now i have searched 1 church book from Meppel births and baptism 1826 1757, looked special for Jooste Jansen Van Meteren, b. abt. 1659, Meppellen, Province of Drenth, Holland. From page 114 to page 1117 we have the year 1659 nothing to found what looks like Jooste Jan or Jan joosten.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-994V-HV3Y?mode=g&i...
Thes e are the original church books from the Netherlands.

The first appaerence of a van Meteren in Drenthe is around 1800.
Deceased : Maria van Meteren; geboren op: 02-06-1806 te Lopik; beroep: arbeidster, overleden op 31-07-1826 te Veenhuizen (Norg), dochter van Henderikus van Meteren en Nelia Kruisheer .
Later more:

Church book is 1626 to 1757, pqge 114 to 117 is the year 1659. the church book is from the town Meppel.

From http://wgscroggins.kueber.us/Vanmeter3_Jan_Joosten.pdf page 5

Jan Joosten van Meteren who came from Thielerwaardt in Gelderland and probably was related to, perhaps a first cousin of Jan Gysbertsen van Meteren who came from Bommel in Gelderland. Bommel lies on the Waal River which forms the dividing line between the Tielerwaard and the Bommelwaard. (SHIPS PASSENGER LISTS, page 32, with reference to DUKE, SHEPHERD, VAN METRE GENEALOGY, S. G. Smith, EARLY SETTLERS OF KINGS COUNTY, Bergen, EARLY DUTCH SETTLERS MONMOUTH COUNTY, NEW JERSEY, G. C. Beekman, and NEW NETHERLAND REGISTER MAGAZINE.)

So there's another set of Hendricks siblings:

Geertje (married 1) Andries Hoppe 2) DIrck Gerritsen Van Dien)
Annatje (1st wife of Jan Arentsen Vanderbilt)
Beletje (wife of Cornelis Arentsen)

They were of Arnhem, Gederland.

We've done most of this before but I wanted to make sure that's sorted, sourced, disambiguated.

Citation: "Geertje Hendricks: Mother of the Hopper and Van DIen Familes" by George Olin Zabriskie, page 264 - 268 of Genealogies of New Jersey Families: Families A-Z, pre-American notes on old New Netherland families Genealogical Publishing Com, 1996 - Reference - 1156 pages

https://books.google.com/books?id=k4zStKaPmsEC&lpg=PA1053&o...

http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/s/t/u/Elizabeth-Stuerke-IL/WEBSITE-000...

Hendrick Rijcksen died date unknown.He married Hendriicksen Van Reemst.
Children of Hendrick Rijcksen and Hendriicksen Van Reemst are:
+Geertje Hendricke, b. Abt. 1611, d. Aft. 1686.
Belitie Hendricke, d. date unknown.

Started new discussion for the Hendrickses from Arnhelm

https://www.geni.com/discussions/163159?msg=1121839

Alex after seen several sites it is clear that, Maeyken Hendricx van den Oever is born in Waardenburg ad married Willem Gijsbertszen Crom (Krom) 07 04 1645 in Waardenburg.
She is not born in Meppel that is 100%
She later married Jan Joosten (van Meteren) but also that is not 100% sure that his name was van Meteren, it is possible that he came from the town Meteren.

Piet Roestenburg I tend to agree with you. I think the Meppel association is from the other Hendricks family & that's been shown how it occurred (in the next generation, in Kingston NY).

birth place changed to Waardenburg.

I have changed DOB from 12/12/1624 to c.12/12/1624 as the Waardenburg baptismal records do not go back any further than 1631 i am very suspicious of this DOB. There are marriage records back to 1619

i will try to find something more from the town Waardenburg and their records.

I looked thru trouwen between 1625 and 1619, nothing helpful

I simply cannot resolve Catharine Mollenauer

She currently has 4 husbands whose DOBs range obver 90 years. Here DOB range over 50 years. I think we have multiple Catherines but not sure.

Husband "John Blue"?

Husband "Hendrick" she has 3 but they are two different men and the third is surely just a duplicate of one of them ... but which?

Regarding Maijken Hendricks van den Oever, many of her children are listed still as born Meppel, Drenthe but am changing these all to Gelderland.

The surnames of these children are all mixed up but from my reading this is a true reflection of the facts. So there is no conclusive way to tell which child of Maijcken's belongs to which husband. Seemingly several of them even switched around between the patronyms of her two husbands. Then there is the change of Krom to Crom and the various spelling variations of van Meteren.

Blue is easy, here's the real Cattron van Meter Blue

Cattron Garretsen Blue

Kids are properly attached also. Will MP this couple & disconnect from multi husband Kati.

Jan Joosten van Meteren, the second husband of Maijcken, currently displays as son of Melchior Van Meteren. Apart from failing the patronym test apparently the evidence is pretty conclusive that this is a fake link attempting to connect the colonial van Meteren family to a van Meteren family of minor nobility.

For what it's worth on http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=79887699

Jan Joosten brought with him his wife Maycke Hendricks* and five children, three of them by Maycke's first husband Willem Krorn (Gysbert, Lysbet and Geertje ages 15, 12 and 9) and two of his own, Joost Jansen age 6 and Catherine age 2 1/2.

*The record I have shows Hendricksen for Maycke.

This page is decent (no parents for Jan Joost or clarification on the kids though)

http://www.watermelon-kid.com/family/bios/vanmeter1.htm

The first will of Jans Jooste Van Meteren, dated December 16, 1681, named his wife Macyke as his primary heir, with their property, following her decease, to go to their children. Jooste Jans, being the eldest son, was to have the largest share of his parent's estate, including three-fourths of the land at Marbletown, New York. Gysbert would have the remaining one-quarter. Daughter Geertje was to have the property at Wassamker's land. The children of Lysbeth, who was already dead by this time, were to receive gifts of money. For some unknown reason, daughter Cathrin is not mentioned at all. Ms. Rogers speculates it was because she was married and had already "received her portion and so disappears from consideration in the distribution of his property."

An inventory of the estate of Jan Joosten Van Meteren, dated June 13, 1706, can be found in the archives of the State of New Jersey. It tells us only that when he died he had a little more than £235 worth of personal property, including six Negro slaves - a man, a woman, and four children, all worth £145.

Based on the above quotes & also the wonderful http://www.skeeterkitefly.com/finelineage_V4.htm lineage we've been using as a guide, I believe that Catharine Mollenauer was a van Meteren and not a Krom, she was too young at emigration to have been from Mackye's first marriage. Her husband & father of her only known child, Margaret who married a Van Meteren cousin (Margaret Van Meter ... and the line that intersects my own family) was, according to comments on https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Mollenauer-4 , a plain, no patronym, Hendrick Mollenauer (abt 1650 - abt 1712).

So which one is he, Hendrick Adriaensen Mollenauer or Hendrick Adriaensen Mollenauer or ... I disconnected Hendrick Joosten Molenaer from Cathrin, that was her sister's husband.

A comprehensive look at the evidence regarding Jan Joosten’s ancestry is presented here: http://www.skeeterkitefly.com/finelineage_V2.htm

It can be summarised with five words “Parents unknown, unlikely to change”.

The quote on the Find-a-Grave site sounds very authoritative but it is completely unsupported. I am inclined to believe that Joost Jans was Jan Joosten’s son and so any children younger than him must also be Jan’s. This doesn’t mean that children older than Joost were all fathered by Willem. Also the 5 children identified by age on the ship’s manifest are not named so how reliable are the birth dates assigned to them?

Much more detail: http://www.skeeterkitefly.com/finelineage_V4.htm

:) we are reading the same pages, from http://www.skeeterkitefly.com/finelineage_V4.htm regarding Catherine (who it is actually saying may not even have been a child of Maycken let alone Jan):

If there was no "Catherine Van Meteren," who married Hendrick and was Margaret's mother? There was a Catherine (Catalina) Bodine who married a Hendrick/Hendrix Mulliner/Mullinor/Mullinar and had five children: Yost/Joost, Arience/Ariency, Jan/John, Maryken/Mary, and Lisabet/Lisebet/Elizabeth. This Hendrick was "one of the pioneer settlers of the South Branch" in New Jersey; he died in Somerset County in 1719, and Joost Jansen's son Isaac Van Metre was appointed as his executor, with brothers John and Henry Van Metre as fellow-bondsmen. Isaac supposedly married Hendrick's widow Catalina.

But this was not the Hendrick Mollenauer whose daughter Margaret was born in Somerset County in 1687 and married John Van Metre in 1710. Meaning there were two, in separate generations: the Hendrick who died in 1719 was born circa 1681, meaning he could have been Margaret's brother and the older Hendrick's son (and possibly Joost Adriaensen's nephew). Or he could have been Joost and Lysbet's son who was baptized in 1681—note that Hendrick himself had children named Joost (Yost) and Lisabet.

Or all three of them—Hendrick, Lysbet's Joost, and Margaret's father—might have been unrelated men who operated mills, or were the sons or grandsons of millers—and so would go on to be muddlers of webgens, three centuries after their deaths.

I love "muddlers of webgens." :)

I'm working on Catherine "Catalina” Van Meter who married a Molenauer & had lots of kids despite dying at 3 years old, on 86 smart matches.

Would you want to go ahead and disconnect the various Miller men from being associated with each other as we just don't know?

LOL, which Millers are you specifically referring to?

I'm lost.

Here is a Van Meteren / Van Meter / Van Metre etc. database

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SHOW&db=elsi...

OK according to http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=elsie... Hendrick Joosten Molenaer married http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=elsie..., who married 2nd to Isaac Van Meter.

I'm thinking I should merge her (I should find her over in Isaac Van Meter) into Lysbeth Molenauer above. I've created a new "died young" Lysbeth.

Apparently the Blaw / Blue's lead to this pair of sisters but we're not yet sure how, exactly

Elizabeth Donner, Donner Party & Mary Donner

(notice the project membership)

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