Col. Peter Ashton - Looks like the Colonel was childless

Started by Private User on Sunday, July 7, 2019
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Don’t mix up the Peter who died 1653 with Col Peter ! That was the bad merge I had to undo that started all this. :(

The John Asheton / Elizabeth Tarleton Marriage was 1631, which is too late for this couple to have been parents of the 3 - 4 brothers. Fits however as a second marriage / parents of “Mary.” But this is really speculative.

Erica Howton

Deyo, William L
July 10 2019 1:20 PM (6 minutes ago)
to me

Hi Linda,

Thanks for the Ashton info. As you can see the Lincolnshire Pedigrees (which was published in the early 1900’s) differs from my research and from that of the other link on the gleanings of England. I am confident that my material is correct since it is based on the actual Lincolnshire Visitation records that were contemporary with those people. Those were the official records that the College of Heraldry used to register the arms of the noble families. The Lincolnshire Pedigrees book appears to have made an error in saying that Peter Ashton (d. 1654) was a son rather than a brother of Walter Ashton of Spalding and Long Sutton. It is clear that the Ashtons of Virginia descend from that branch because they carried on the name of the ancestral Ashton home of “Chadderton/Chatterton”.

Bill

Erica Howton

VIRGINIA GLEANINGS IN ENGLAND 437

The pedigree of the Ashtons of Spalding, Lincolnshire, descended
from the Ashtons of Chaderton or Chatterton, Lancashire (Harleian
2086, a 1549) explains some of the ramifications of Dame Jane's kins-
folk. Cassandra, daughter of William Apreece, of Washingley in
Lutton, co. Huntingdon, married 1st John Roberts, of Wallaston, co.
Northampton, Esq., (and was doubtless the mother of Dame Jane) ;
2nd, Adlard Welby, of Gedney, Esq.; 3rd, Peter Ashton, of Holmear
Grange, in Spalding, co. Lincoln; 4th, Robert Carr, of Aswarby, co.
Lincoln, Esq. Dame Jane had, half brothers and sisters, Walter
Ashton, of Spalding, Mary Ashton, married Hawes Apreece, and Isa-
bella Ashton married John Bradshaw, of Bradshaw, co. Derby. Walter
Ashton had three sons, the nephews named in the will, Peter, Edmund
and Walter. Each had sons, the "cousins" named in the will. It is
possible that a little investigation in England might identify the three
brothers who came to Virginia. This detailed note has been given,
in part, to show what information a single English will sometimes contains

https://archive.org/stream/jstor-4243844/4243844_djvu.txt

" The Lincolnshire Pedigrees book appears to have made an error in saying that Peter Ashton (d. 1654) was a son rather than a brother of Walter Ashton of Spalding and Long Sutton."

Actually it looks to me like if there's any error, it might be that they skipped a generation. Walter of Spalding and Long Sutton died in 1587 and Peter died 1653. That's a 66-year time difference. Walter lived long enough to have at least three children, so it seems unlikely that that these two were brothers. The other Walter in the tree is called the Vicar of Sutterton, not "of Spalding and Long Sutton", and this Walter is the brother of Peter d. 1653.

Here's the line of descent that I see:
James (Agnes) d. 1549
Peter “2nd son” (Cassandra Apreece) d 1558
Walter “of Spaulding and Long Sutton” (Ethelreda) d. 1587
Child one: Peter Ashton (Elizabeth Ellis) d. 1653
Child two: Walter “Vicar of Sutterton” (wife unknown)
Peter Ashton 1629

BTW James (Agnes) d. 1549 was "of Chadderton". His oldest son Edmund was also "of Chadderton". They don't give Edmund's lineage, but presumably he went on to have descendants who inherited the Chadderton property. Everybody else in the pedigree is connected to Spalding rather than Chadderton, gradually branching out into other properties.

I'm doubtful about the 1629 birthdate, but it looks to me like there's a high probability that Colonel Peter was the son of Walter Vicar of Sutterton, not Walter and Ethelreda. The original James of Chadderton would have been this Peter's great-great-grandfather, which seems a little far removed in time for Peter to give the Chatterton name to his Virginia plantation. But he probably at least heard the name while he was growing up.

There are several other Peter Ashtons in the tree but none of them have the right dates and/or circumstances. The most promising alternative is another Peter 1629 (son of the Vicar's brother Edmond), but the sibling names are all wrong.

Confirmation that Chadderton Hall passed down in Edmund's line for several generations until it was eventually sold: https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/lancs/vol5/pp115-121 The article says that a pedigree was created, but it's not clear to me where it is and I haven't been able to find it.

However it doesn't look like this branch of the family cared for the name Peter. I had wondered if Colonel Peter might have come from a branch of the family that was more closely connected to Chadderton Hall, but it doesn't look like it.

Ethelreda is the wife of Walter Vicar of Sutterton. The father of Walter Vicar of Sutterton is Walter of Spalding/Mother Unknown

The way I understand it is Colonel Peter is the son of Walter "Vicar of Sutterton" & Ethelreda. Walter of Sutterton is the son of Walter of Spalding /Mother Unknown. Walter of Spalding is son of Peter of Chatterton /Cassandra Apreece.

The Peter that died in 1654 is the BROTHER of Walter Vicar of Sutterton and the son of Walter of Spalding and the Uncle of Colonel Peter

Mary (Ashton) Elkins is the SISTER of Colonel Peter Ashton

See Post above

VIRGINIA GLEANINGS IN ENGLAND 437

The pedigree of the Ashtons of Spalding, Lincolnshire, descended
from the Ashtons of Chaderton or Chatterton, Lancashire (Harleian
2086, a 1549)

https://archive.org/stream/jstor-4243844/4243844_djvu.txt

The line as I read it is

James/Agnes
Peter/Cassandra
Walter of Spalding/Unknown
Walter Vicar of Sutterton/Ethelreda
Colonel Peter

Peter/Cassandra Children:

Walter of Spalding
Peter
Mary
Isabella

Walter of Spalding Children

Walter Vicar of Sutterton
Peter
Edmund

Walter Vicar of Sutterton/Ethelreda Children

Colonel Peter
Mary
James

Mixing up Walters!

Rev. Walter Ashton, Vicar of Sutterton Was the SON of Lady Ethelreda Rigden
& brother of Edmund & Peter d 1653.

Slowly & carefully please.

There is no evidence I’ve seen for other children of Rev Walter.

We know that James & John we’re brothers. How “sure” are we that Col. Peter was their brother ?

Hah! “Aunt of the world”.

https://archive.org/details/jstor-4243844/page/n4

I believe the Geni tree is same as the Will. But clearly Peter, son of Walter Ashton & his wife mentioned, was an only child (at this point in 1629).

So if he was Col Peter, his relationship with James & John & “Mary” would need to be found.

https://books.google.com/books?id=f8kWVOafFtQC&pg=PA431&lpg...

Page 461 says at the bottom of the page that Peter Ashton that died 1654 was the brother of Walter Ashton Vicar of Sutterton. It also says that Walter Ashton Vicar of Sutterton had a son name Peter (which in my opinion is Colonel Peter)

This same page says that Colonel Peter left his lands to his brothers James of Kirby-Underwood and John of Louth. Both James & John came to Virginia . John died in 1682 & James died in 1686 -- neither John or James left issue.

Also it states that Peter who died in 1654 was married to Elizabeth Ellis daughter of Sir Thomas Ellis of Grantham.

Everything in agreement but if Col Peter was the brother of John & James, he wasn’t the son of Rev Walter. Auntie’s will in 1629 names Walter, his wife, their son Peter. That’s it.

I’m looking for more info on Rev Walter. CCED lists his birthplace in Yorkshire & his college as St Johns at Cambridge. Have not found him in the Venn database of Cambridge alumni - the name spelling could be a variant I didn’t think of yet though.

Anyway so far I’m inclined to say this Peter son of Walter was not the immigrant & we should be looking further afield.

http://db.theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/persons/CreatePersonFrames.j...

Question asked several days ago: "I’m not crazy about the three brothers as sons of Rev Walter, why is only one child listed, then ?"

I found evidence that Rev. Walter didn't always live in Lincolnshire. The pedigree at https://books.google.com/books?id=AqRCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1139&lp... says that he was instituted 12 Feb 1630-1631. Apparently this is the date he took up the vicarship, and I confirmed that Sutterton is in Lincolnshire: https://www.suttertonparishchurch.co.uk/

Presumably he was born in Lincolnshire, since that's where his parents lived. But at least one of his children was born in Yorkshire. Entry # 20 at https://books.google.com/books?id=wINtMRl0WGcC&pg=PA14&lpg=... says that in 1633 the admissions to the College of St. John the Evangelist included Walter Ashton, son of Walter Ashton, vicar of Sutterton, 25 Lincolnshire; born at Leven Yorkshire. I don't see any realistic possibility that this could be someone else.

If all his children were born in Yorkshire, there wouldn't be christening records for them in Lincolnshire. Apparently there was some record of Peter in 1629, but either the others didn't leave records there or the compiler didn't think this line was worth bothering with because they all got out of Dodge and didn't leave descendants in the area.

I don't see anyone who looks like John or James in the tree, and all sources say they were living in Lincolnshire when Colonel Peter died. But apparently they weren't living in the right area for the author. He's specifically writing about Ashton of Grantham and Spalding. John was living at Lowth as an adult, and James was at Kirby Underwood. I think the tree is very incomplete.

This document references where the original Will is held, might be of interest to Bill Deyo.

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000099313923821&

Yes, agree with points made in https://www.geni.com/discussions/198725?msg=1311571

Rev Walter just doesn’t feel right, and with everyone looking for an actual Chatterton connection, they’re missing trees.

There’s a lot of England work that could be done. But i’d Start by completing the people in James’ 1687 will. Since he knew them all & we don’t. :)

Very nice find on Walter son of Walter son of Walter. I wonder why he wasn’t mentioned in auntie’s Will?

Erica it looks like your Rev. Walter is the son of the Vicar of Sutterton - see my last post. We can estimate his birthdate if anyone knows what the typical age was for being admitted to college was in those days.

I would like to find the text of Colonel Peter's will. Everybody agrees on who he left his property to, but I would like to see exactly what the will says. I've seen a lot of wrong information being spread because of paraphrasing. For example that Brother John left money to his son Captain John, or to Captain John the son of Charles, when John's will doesn't actually identify the Captain's relationship to anybody.

Dame Skipwith’s 1629 will does mention these people together:

“To my cousin Peter Ashton £10. To my cousin James Ashton £10.To my cousin John Ashton £10. To my cousin Jane Ashton £10”

Auntie's will left small bequests to approximately 40,000 people. It wouldn't be surprising if she accidentally left out a few. Or maybe she intentionally left out the ones that she didn't like or didn't know very well. It looks like the Vicar took up his post at Sutterton shortly after she died, and she might not have even met most of his children. If Peter moved into the area earlier than the others she probably would have met him. If he was actually born in 1605 (which I doubt), he would have reached adulthood before her death and could go anywhere he wanted to. If he was born later the family might still have had some reason for wanting to send him back to the family's original home turf.

Yes, I agree that listing Peter, James, and John together is very suggestive. But the family had lots of people with those names, and so far I haven't figured out exactly what her relationship to any of these people was. "cousin" was a very loose term in those days, and for all I know maybe "nephew" was too.

"with everyone looking for an actual Chatterton connection, they’re missing trees."

If there wasn't an actual Chatterton connection, the main alternate explanation for the name that I can think of is that Colonel Peter had heard of the Ashtons of Chadderton and wanted people to think he was part of that family when he really wasn't. Or that he was mocking the Ashtons of Chadderton by naming his plantation after their ancestral home. But this seems unlikely. It looks like he came from a prominent family, and it would be hard to fool the other wealthy families in the area.

FWIW I don't see Dame Skipwith leaving anything to Charles Ashton. But she might have disowned him if he raised as much hell in England as he did in Virginia.

I’m still finding Charles dicey as part of this family.

Dame Jane Skipwith tree Needs to be built out! We don’t even have her Ashton connection.

The light slowly dawns... the 1629 date on two of the Peters at https://books.google.com/books?id=AqRCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1139&lp... is the date they were mentioned in Dame Skipwith's will. She leaves money "To my cousin Peter Ashton son of my sd. nephew Edmund A" and "To my cousin Peter Ashton son of my sd. nephew Walter A." And that's exactly who the 1629 Peters are attached to in the tree.

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