Saher III de Quincy, Magna Carta Baron, Earl of Wincester - Saher III de Quincy, Magna Carta Baron, Earl of Wincester is my 29th great grandfather.

Cynthia, Have you investigated all the Magna Carta Sureties and Witnesses? I have found that many of them are my Great Grandfathers. Many Barons were interrelated. We are one big family. Jeffrey Allen Tomlinson

Saher III de Quincy, Magna Carta Baron, Earl of Wincester
is my 6th cousin 21 times removed.

Saher III de Quincy, Magna Carta Baron, Earl of Wincester is my 22nd great grandfather.

Saher III de Quincy, Magna Carta Baron, Earl of Wincester is my 23rd great grandfathe

Very true Jeff ... we are one big family ...we are 17th cousins.

I checked my connections to the Magna Carta Sureties and found the majority were my Great Grandfathers (19) and 6 Great Uncles and a couple of cousins. Haven't checked the Witnesses yet. Very interesting.

He is my 22nd gg too.

Saier de Quincy, Earl of Winchester, Surety for the Magna Carta, is my 25th great grandfather.

I have people who were involved with it , too.

Saher de Quincey is my 23rd ggrandfather :)

Saher or Saier is also my 22ND gr.granddad. Does anyone know why sometimes he is mention as III, and sometimes IV? Odd name Somehow the 2 spellings of his name do not seem French, or English. Almost sounds Middle Eastern....

I've read here and there that the name Saier or Saher is the Norman French form of the Germanic name Sigiher (Anglo-Saxon Sigher, Dutch Segher, etc.). I've also heard that it is the source for the surname Sayer. It would be interesting to find a source.

Thanks so much for the info! Do you know why he is sometimes the III,or the IV?

I don't know the answer to that without looking, but I can tell you how to figure it out.

These guys didn't use numbers themselves. The numbers were assigned retroactively, typically in the 19th century, by genealogists who wanted to eliminate confusion. Unfortunately, they sometimes used different rules and came up with different systems.

So, you can usually figure out the different systems by looking at the whole family tree.

For families with an ancestor in Normandy, the numbering sometimes starts before the family came to England. Other times, the numbering starts with the first ancestor in England, even though there was an earlier generation with the same name in Normandy.

For families where the succession went from grandfather to father to son all with the same name, the numbering usually follows just the heir. Sometimes, however, the numbering includes younger sons who didn't inherit the estates.

If the surname changed because of different estates, sometimes the numbering starts with the earliest male ancestor even though he had a different surname. Sometimes it starts with the first man to have the surname.

When an man inherited, left no children, and was succeeded by his nephew, the numbering generally is supposed to include him, but sometimes he got missed in the counting.

Sometimes the numbering is extended to include cousins. Sometimes even distant cousins.

Sometimes historians figured out later that two men they thought were the same were actually different, so the numbering had to be re-done to include an extra person.

So, to find out why Saier is sometimes III and sometimes IV, you'd want to look at the pedigree view for an earlier Saier who is either not in the direct line or who lived before Saier I. Somewhere in there you should see four Saiers, and be able to see why one of them might not have been given a number.

Very informative! Thanks so much! Patty

I agree it can get very confusing , on occasion but like Justin says you can usually figure it out .

He's in my line too but off hand can't can't say without going into info and counting back , how many times grandfather.