Jacqueline Decré, SM/PROG - SM/PROG

Started by Sharon Doubell on Sunday, June 15, 2014
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Should she be the SM/PROG, as she died on the boat here?

I'm inclined to leave it as is, because otherwise we're only left with her grandaughters - but Private User & Daan Botes - might want to give input here.

No, since she did not arrive in SA she is neither.
If her daughter Marie would have grown up and had children, she could have been PROG.
We might have to look at our definition of SM again - there definitely should be a prerequisite that she should have arrived in SA.

So whose the SM PROG then do you think?

Is this an instance where there is no official SM/PROG of the Gouws family, and that in the absence of any other candidate Catharina Bok takes on that title?

This can be a follow up to our article Daan Botes

I'm still trying to figure it out in my mind, but I think it's not that simple.
Making Catharina Bock SM makes her husband Steven Gous, b1 an SV - which he is clearly not in the B generation. (It would make her the SM of all her husband's half brothers' children too - even though she's unconnected to them except collaterally)
So therefore I'd say that we can't have a prerequisite that the SM landed in SA, and Jacqueline must be the SM1 of Andre Gauch's two wives - as both women gave him Gauch sons.

The PROG issue would have been even more difficult, I think - because if we don't put her at the apex then her 5 granddaughters would have had to be labelled PROG 1, PROG 2 ,PROG 3 etc . Something that also seems unwieldy to me.
So, again, I'd say that it is likely we can't stipulate that the PROG woman has to have landed in SA.

In this case, Jacqueline's line seems to run dead at her grandchildren - so I think it might be easiest to leave the PROG (and maybe the SM) off altogether.
But that still leaves us with future scenarios to deal with where the line continues.

PS Further research is making it look like she dies before the boat trip, not on it.

Maybe we need a new category of SM/PROG - for such cases? Have the title in brackets (SV/PROG) and a curator note?

See the document attached to the http://www.geni.com/projects/South-African-Progenitors-Matriarchs-S... - we (Daan Botes and I) are open to discussion and clarification!

Maybe I answered to quickly above.
Jacqueline is of course the mother of the Decrè family - this makes her a SM (stammoeder)
Note that we have not stated in the article that a person must have arrived in SA to be a SM - only that she is/was the wife of a Stamvader SV/PROG.
Also note that SM is the stammoeder as traditionally defined in genealogy circles.
PROG is a new status which we created/suggested for matriarchs not necessarily been married to a stamvader who arrived in the country as part of a family.
For the PROG status she had to physically arrived in the country and had to be the oldest/most senior female of the arriving party and had to have children. Therefore she can not be PROG not meeting the first requirement
Therefore her suffix is only SM or stammoeder.
In summary we then say that officially there always is a SM of a family, but not necessarily a PROG (which is reserved, just as for males, for persons who actually arrived in SA.

I do not want to open an argument now of what arrive means - she could have drowned falling off the little row boat 5 meters from the shoreline!

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