Raoul d'Ivry, comte d'Ivry et de Bayeux - Wife or Wives?

Have you checked soc.gen.medieval to see if any of that merry band has comments?

@Raoul d'ivry, comte d'ivry et de Bayeux is my 31 st grt grandfather i have one wife listed Aubree Albe're'e Eremburge de Caux is my 31st grt grandmother http://www.geni.com/path/Judy-Rice+is+related+to+Raoul-d-Ivry?from=... this is my link Judy Rice

C'est sa première épouse Auberée (Alberède) qui aurait fait construire vers 970 le Château d'Ivry sur les plans de l'architecte Lanfred. selon les historiens Le comte Raoul aurait tué plus tard sa femme pour garder le contrôle de la forteresse.

Il eut quatre enfants avec sa première épouse : Hugues qui devint évêque de Bayeux , Emma qui épousera Osbern de Crépon, Raoul et une fille dont le nom est inconnue mais qui fut mariée à Richard de Beaufou. En seconde noce avec Eremberge il eut Jean d'Ivry qui devint évêque d'Avranches puis de Rouen

first wife= Auberée (Alberède) they got ,Hugues,Emma ,Raoul and a girl married to Richard de Beaufou

second wife =Eremberge they got ,Jean d'Ivry

Merci beaucoup, Martin. Je peux lire aussi bien le français (but I'm not sure about others here).

Most of the information we have about d'Ivry and his wife/wives and children comes from two sources: WIlliam of Jumièges (Guillaume de Jumièges), whose dates have been guesstimated as c. 1000-c.1070, putting him just a generation or so later, and Orderic Vitalis (1075 – c. 1142), who was born in England and had to learn French as an adult. The juicier stuff mostly comes from Orderic, and we can't be sure how much of it is accurate.

Jumièges is itself located in the "Pays de Caux", so it may be presumed that Guillaume knew his neighborhood and that when he ascribes Raoul's wife (he's the one who cites her as "Eranberge") as coming from "une certaine terre du pays de Caux que l'on appelle Caville ou Cacheville", he is probably reporting the contemporary name for someplace nearby. (Sure enough, Canville-les-deux-Églises is less than 50 km away, and we have no attested forms of its name earlier than 1149: Canvilla 1149, 1172 ; Camvilla 1153 ; Caumvilla 1170 - 1172. There's a discussion of possible sources of the name - in French - on its French Wikipedia page: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canville-les-Deux-%C3%89glises )

http://ivry-lesvieillespierres.fr/?q=node/53

i should past the link :)

Note : Cette page a été réalisée à partir des informations recuellies dans les ouvrages cités en référence et sur les différents sites internet traitant de la vie de Raoul Comte de Bayeux et d'Ivry et de son époque, notamment "La Normandie des Duc aux Rois" de François Neveux, "Histoire des Ducs de Normandie" de Guillame de Jumièges et Gesta Normannorum Ducum (exploits des Ducs de Normands) de Robert Torigny. .

it suport the english version

about Eremberge it is plausible this is a family name?

mistake..not family name
de CANOUVILLE Eremberge

http://genealogie.liegeois.free.fr/n15932.htm

:D we got a match

madam Helms
Aubree Albérède and Eremburge de Caux are two diferent woman its look like they put the two name togheter

Unknown father of Aubree / Eranberge de Camville (de Canoville) (Canville de Caux)

http://ivry-lesvieillespierres.fr/?q=node/54

here are a good source for Auberée (Alberède) as first wife or Raoul d'Ivry

"Canville" is not a given name, it is a place name. At that period place names were not used as given names. It is reasonable to suspect a lost form "NN (de) Canville de Caux" (So-and-so from Canville in the Caux region).

What's-his-name Canville de Caux obviously had sons as well as a daughter, because pretty soon members of the Canville/Camville family show up in England in teh wake of William of Normandy.

yess you right canville is a place so CANOUVILLE is wrong?
i found on the web canville de caux maried canville de caux it doesnt help at this point

back to raoul wifes now we got few source for two wife

Auberée (Alberède) and Eremberge

but i need to surf the web for clue about parentage of two woman ...i using the french naming///trying

here a visual .pdf

ép=spousse

ép1 é p2

racineshistoire.free.fr/LGN/PDF/Bayeux-Ivry.pdf

I went and dug up the Latin original. What is verbatim said about the wife of Raoul d'Ivry is:

"Accepit autem mulierem quamdam, vocabulo Erembergam vel Alberedam speciosam valde, natam in quadam villa Calcivii territorii, quae dicitur Canvilla."

My Latin is dreadfully rusty, but I make it, "He married a wife, called Eremberga or Albereda, (very beautiful?), born in a place in the Chalk (Caux) territory which is called Canville."

Which to my mind settles it: Eremburga or Albereda or whichever her name was, belonged to the Canville/Camville family.

The Gesta Normannorum (which is the source I dug back to) further mentions two sons and two daughters, and gives her credit for building the tower of Ivry-la-battaile.

All the gossip about offing the architect and being offed in her turn by her husband comes later, and was almost certainly gossip dug up by Orderic - samples of his work online show that he was very chatty and gossipy, not to mention rather strongly opinionated. Whether he's any more accurate on this point than the National Enquirer, we do not know.

Bonjour Martin

Getting back to the Canville/Canouville question, it seems there are three places the Camvilles (and the imperious Albereda) could have come from:

1. Canville-les-Deux-Églises, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, Arrondissement de Rouen, Canton de Doudeville. Previously most of the scholarly opinion was that this was the most likely point of origin. A point against is that there is no longer even an archaeological trace of any kind of castle or fortification that could be dated back far enough. The neighborhood has not, however, been completely explored in this regard.

2. Canville-la-Rocque, Région Basse-Normandie, Département Manche, Arrondissement Coutances, Canton La Haye-du-Puits. Often confused with Canville-les-Deux-Églises. Features the Chateau d'Olonde, most of which dates from the 16th century but the oldest parts of which have been dated back to about the 12th.

3. Canouville, Région Haute-Normandie, Département Seine-Maritime, Arrondissement Dieppe, Canton Cany-Barville. Bears traces of habitation back to Gallo-Roman times (approx. 2d to 7th centuries AD), including a small theater. The last physical traces of a fortification dating to probably the 11th century vanished early in the 19th century, but modern archaeological methods could probably locate the disturbances of the earth that would indicate the site.

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