Sir William de Baguley, Knight - When and why was @Sir William de Baguley knighted?

Hi David I'll definitely help research this with you. I have a several links in my Bigelow family project research that might be helpful.

David you may find some clues on this document if we can find a larger version. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_of_Charters#Confirmatio

He may have been knighted prior to or after the Battle of Stirling Bridge. The Marcher Lords have decided to support the King on this one, as they are all threatened by the Scots. John Warren lead the English, and would have been at the head of a large contingent of Cheshire lords, most likely Sir William may have been part of this.

More may be found here, in documents relating to the Lords Bigod and Bohun and the other nobles refusing to fight for Eward I and naming their complaints against him.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remonstrances

I found an alternative spelling for Baguley as Bugaleys in the 1300s, first in Earl William de Warrenne's will. The Earl of Surrey mentions " William Bugaleys" as his confessor to receive 10 shillings. William became a prior by 1330, in these church records:

http://books.google.com/books?id=5JrYAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT119&lpg=...

Using this alternative spelling may be helpful in searches.

From the friends of Baguley Hall:

1313 Bond from Hamon de Kenewrthy of 40 shillings to William de Baggley for his Service & Allegiance to his Knights Liege. (Translator- Agra)
A Medieval Bond in a Subinfeudation is usually a form of security in respect of the land. See"Medieval usury and the commercialization of feudal bonds By Shael Herman".
I
n this translation, Hamon de Kenewrthy has to pay a Service & Allegiance to Sir William de Baggelegh (Knight) to the sum of 40 shillings for the Moiety of all his own lands & property in Northenden & Kenworthy. The Bond means Hamon was a Feudal Vassal to his Liege Lord & in feudal terms bound to his King, Baron & Knight - Edw 2nd, Baron Massey V1 & Sir William de Baggelegh. Hamon Seals his Bond with the payment described & token rent of a nominal halfpenny for life as Seisin (possession) for Sir William.
1314-1315 About 10% of the Population die through poor health over 2 years as heavy rains in 1314 ruin the harvests. The Scots invade & in 1315, riots break out in Lancaster’s Northern Estates & Adam Banastre sacked Manchester! Prices crash for wool & cattle starve. The English Crown clamour for grain from Gascony! Grain & wine imports from Gascony (English since 1303) saved Paris from succumbing fully to the famine conditions. The conditions in Manchester were not good, but Gascony had rich farmers from the urgent sale of grain & wine. Corruption was rife & it was dangerous to be a Merchant!
1316 Thomas De Mascy of Wythenshaw. Land granted by Thomas to William his son & also neighbour William Baggelegh (One Witness is Roger de Keneworthy. Ormerod)
1316 Hamon de Massey V1 & 3rd wife Joan sign the reversion of the Dunham Estate on their future death to Oliver de Ingham. The Hamon heir has returned to Gascony & died there some time earlier, just before his Fathers Annulment & Marriage to Joan!
1316 (Oct) Henry de Northenden- Grant by Henry (Son of Hamon de Northenden) to Geoffrey the son of William de Baggelegh
1317 (April) Roger de Keneworthy- Grant by Roger (Son of Hamon de Kenworthy) to Geoffrey the son of William de Baggelegh
1332 Mathilda (widow of Henry de Northenden, Son of Hamon de Northenden. Quitclaim to William de Baggelegh.

So he was knighted before 1313, and his leige Lord is Hamon de Mascy VI. He was knighted by either Edward I or Edward II. Many genealogists believe that the Baguleys are a cadet branch of the de Mascy's.

Missing son: Geoffrey de Baggalegh.
1316 (Oct) Henry de Northenden- Grant by Henry (Son of Hamon de Northenden) to Geoffrey the son of William de Baggelegh
1317 (April) Roger de Keneworthy- Grant by Roger (Son of Hamon de Kenworthy) to Geoffrey the son of William de Baggelegh.

Geoffrey must have been the eldest.

Delete Geoffrey was eldest, meant William.
Here's the link to the Cheshire group " friends of Baggily Hall" on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/friends.baguley.hall/posts/520073934703160

He may have been knighted at this huge event in 1306.
http://edwardthesecond.blogspot.com/2011/05/knighting-of-22-may-130...
Kathryn Warner, the historian who writes this blog is a great researcher.
She posts her sources.

David:
I think that Sir William had a father also William Baguley born ca. 1260-1320. Could this be your missing generation? You can see from the land transactions that the second William is alive past 1320, he who has the son Geoffrey.

Another source confirming the title "Sir" William Baggaleigh :
The Peerage log England: containing a genealogical and historical account of all the Peers of the Kingdom by Arthur Collins page 14,

http://www.geni.com/path/Michael-mcCann+is+related+to+Sir-William-d...

Couple of things:
Sir William 1260 is who I'm looking for on the knight question.
The younger Sir William I dont believe to be the son of the older Sir William. I'm in the middle of it but I believe Sir William 1305 is the son of John probably Robert maybe, brothers of Sir William 1260. I know this is what the Geni tree says any many others follow but I think there is other logic with sources that I'm working on right now.
Sir William 1260 had two wives as did Sir William 1305 names we recognize but the children of each may be mixed up.
The time it's taking is because it all, IMO, comes down through the Massey's. New clues like Mathew de Bromhale being the same as Mathew Massey de Bromhal is helping. I've started at Guillaume de la Ferte-Mace aka Guillaume Massey and am working my way down, slowly.

Here are three things that have come up:
1. Hamon I was a "natural" meaning bastard son of G. De la Ferte-Mace. Notes refer to "Muriel" de Conteville as his step-mother. He grew up as groom to Mathieu de la Ferte-Mace who along with his father were at Hastings. Matthieu died in Normandy and by will Hamon I inherited the lands of Dunham Massey as 1st Baron.
2. Sir William may be the brother or son of Hamon IV and not of Rafe de Baggiley, Sir Ralph.
3. Hamon VI is a real enigma, besides being a real jerk. He signed a "reversion" of his lands for some reason, no male heir?, and took the money and apparently left for Jerusalem never to be heard from again. This action is complicating the land ownership end of the research, but a lot of this happened in Kenworthy and I've found a good site for research.

Thank you Michael. Your tree is interesting because another part of the puzzle is known missing generations between our American ancestor John Biglo/Baguley and Sir William Baguley, Knight which I believe in your tree is Sir William 1305.

Don't you just love a good mystery?

yes i do.. I'm related to Private User thru another line and she's been helping me with some of my lines that lead to king john lackland and james iv and such

I am also related to Sir William de Baguley Knight hope this line can help you http://www.geni.com/path/Judy-Rice+is+related+to+Sir-William-de-Bag...

I'm open to any new information you find, Private User.
I love a good mystery!

Good David, glad you are working with the Kenworthy info. It's very interesting.I wiil share some other info via email. So, I still haven't found any info regarding his knighting, but I will keep looking. I'll send you some book links too.

Regarding Hamon VI, he may have done the reversion to capitalize his crusading effort. It was several years income to be outfitted, and he may not meant to return. Many of our family at this time went off with either Knights of St. John or Templars to find their fortunes outside of England and France. Or if they committed a heinous crime, that was the way out.

I found a book in four volumes title The Knights of Edward I and Sir William Baguley (Baggiley) is NOT listed! (Vol 1 of 4 is all that I've found online but it has the first part of the alphabet.)

It appears I misspoke on Jerusalem, sorry Pam. I checked my source again and it appears that Hamon VI went to Gascony after the land reversion and died there. Not sure why he left England but he left behind a mess in land ownership that took many years to straighten out.