Yitzchok Stengen - Stengen connection to Eleazer Rokeach of Worms

Private User Too complicated for mere mortals . . . we need masterly guidance.

Malka Mysels Indeed- I wouldn't dare touch any of that, but I am hoping someone with expertise can confirm and fix!!

I'll take a look at it this afternoon - I am on west coast.

J

OK - so, Mordche Mann, and 12 others, appear to be building a tree that connects

R. Yoel Feivish Schtengen (born in 1520 ) R. Yoel Feivish Margolis-Schtengen

to

Eleazer of Worms (born 1170) that means there are nearly 20 generations missing. Yekutiel Zalman Shtangen

It looks like a "test tree" that has not been built out even though there are a number of users recently updating it.

You are correct, Seth, that there are duplicates...but they are duplicates you've cultivated. See revisions:

R. Yoel Feivish Margolis-Schtengen#/tab/revision

Yekutiel Zalman Shtangen#/tab/revision

I would recommend Seth Margulas move R. Yoel Feivish Schtengen (born in 1520 ) to his correct position and then delete this tree removing the duplicates.

I will respond to Rav Yehuda momentarily.

J

As for Kalonymus V 'Yehudah Nathan' ben Todros

Yes, they are duplicates for the same reason - and you've helped render it that way, Seth.

My recommendation here is the same as above...Move the Stengen Family to it's rightful place in the tree - it is currently roughly 20 generations out of place.

J

If you authorize me to cut and snip I can fix it.

J

Jaim, not exactly. I made no additions in that portion of the tree my earliest additon is Aron Margulies in 1760. I fixed several duplicates, corrected a date or two and added Hebrew. The connection of Yitzchak to the duplicate of Eleazer predated any changes I made and the duplicate Eleazer was not connected to the main Kalonymous tree until fairly recently- and certainly not by me.

"We know" that the father of Menecham Mendel Schtengen-Margolioth is Yoel Faivish Schtengen and the father of Yoel Faivish is Yitzchak. Beyond that I think those that made the additions and connections need to explain why they did it in the manner they did with 250 years missing.

I absolutely agree that there are roughly 20 generations missing- the comment in Yitzchak's "About" is mine and I have attempted for over a year to get answers on why he is connected to Eleazer of Worms- so I definately did not render the tree in that manner.

Shlomo Flam argues that it is certain that Yitzchak Schtengen is a descendent of Eleazer of Worms based on information in the Maseah Rokeach of Eleazer Rokeach of Amersterdam. I have no opinion on the validity of any of that other than that if so there are multiple generations missing in between.

My personal opinion is that, yes, the tree should be snipped at Yitzchak until a correct manner of connecting him to Eleazer of Worms can be ascertained, but I know that some of the other managers of Yitzchak's profile feel strongly about the connection. I would love for the other managers who worked on this to chime in.

correction, should read :"added English to the Hebrew"

Also, in my original post I meant Moshe Flam, not Shlomo Flam

Could any of:

Private User

http://www.geni.com/people/מנחם-משה-פלאם/388395149740012505

http://www.geni.com/people/מנחם-מענדל-שארף/2835526

Comment on this please?

Fair enough, Seth. When you arrive at consensus can you include me in your decision-making process near the end?

I'm happy to help.

J

Absolutely!