Adam Brouwer Berkhoven/Berchoven of Gowanis 1622

interesting, Dutch diaspora to Brasilia is not yet very much discovered yet on this platform, although very many, also agricultural developed people started new lives there.... we will see where we can start the puzzle, ok?

I thought that I would say that I do have relations to Hendrik Brower, but it's Hendrik Brouwer is your 7th cousin 8 times removed's wife's great grandfather. This is possibly more obscure than reality because our links are lost.

The ship 'de-SWOL' might be a start for looking in Dutch archives of the VOC en WIC, see also:
* http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl/default.aspx

There are so many Brouwer/Brower/Brewer/Brauer varients, it is what makes it difficult

YES, we loved to drink a beer, especially Germans like this kind of drinks... maybe better to look for wines :-)
You should find a German Geni-user living in KOLN ~ Cologne to help you out searching in local archives there. I can link you to the International German Portal to start your journey, ok?

what I probably need is - -- http://archives.nypl.org/mss/377

So, I dug around the links that you posted, and I can't find the perfect fit. Records say that Adam (aka Pieter) went to Brazil on the swol in 1941 from Ceulen. However, the VOC site says that it was on the Nassau and not the Swol.

http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl/detail.aspx?ID=1576117

This could be proof, but I'm not sold on it yet.

in 1941 there were no VOC-ships going direction Brasilia, I am pretty sure of that...

what year are you digging around? In 1941 lots of Dutch flew for the Nazi's, but not on old-fashioned ships I think...

And how can ships arrive in Ceulen, Germany? Did they have a big haven at the time? VOC and WIC-people had to go to the NORTH Sea coast first to be able to get a plane over the oceans, you see?

I didn't know that the dutch were involved in a war during this time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch%E2%80%93Portuguese_War

From that VOC search page, I did not find any "Adam" Listed, but I did see a Pieter. Here is his information:
Details

Information concerning Pieter Brouwer from Ceulen

Date of commencement of employment: 16-09-1641 Date of termination of employment: 31-03-1642
Occupation at commencement of employment: Midshipman Reason for terminating employment: Last record
Sailed away with the ship: Nassau Where ended tenure of service: Asia
Month certificate: No Debenture: Yes

Information concerning the voyage

Ship: Nassau Departure: 16-09-1641
Chamber: Amsterdam Cape: 13-01-1642
25-01-1642
Inventory number: 5276
Folio: 91 Arrival: 03-04-1642
Batavia
DAS- and voyage no.: 575.7

What is interesting about this record, is that it MAY be Pieter Clementsen Brouwer as was listed as a possible father of Adam, and as a defintie founder of the WIC. What I also found interesting, is there was no Hendrik Brouwer on the list. Why would this be? Would he not be listed as a sailor? Odd. Still, this leaves me intrigued about Pieter if it is pointing to the same origin as Adam (Ceulen).

Oops, I thought I had lost this post, it was just in a new window.... forgive the double post - but some of the information is duplicated.

One thing that I want to point out about verifying if this Pieter is Adam Pieter or Pieter Clementsen, is that if it is either of these two, it lends creedance to my claim. This would show Pieter Clementssen from the same place as Adam, leaving on a different ship on the same year to Brazil. Either that, or this is record for Adam himself, or the last possibility neither....

Okay, yes you are right.... this 1641 departure shows Batvia as the arrival port. I was a bit quick to say that it went to Brazil also. I am going to try and find if Pieter Clementsen went to Batvia in 1641. You are right about the departure port. This cruise left from Texel.

Is there an archive similar to this VOC archive for the WIC?

Dear, 1641. Not 1941 with planes and such......

Not BATVA, but BATAVIA, a place in Dutch East-Indies, a place where we went rich from... not we, but some Dutchies, you see?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Jakarta

Yes that is Batavia. Batvia is not a location, just a place typed with an "a" missing.

It's sort of neat how revelations in genealogy can come from many sources. I want to thank you for posting again about Jakarta. While linking the city again that I talked about the Brouwer Route with did not help me directly, it gave me an idea to dig into something else.

So, here we have my misspelling of Batavia. I spelled it Batvia in one place. This was just a typing error. Luckily, this got me to look some more into Batavia. Yes, we know that Batavia is what we now call Jarkarta. This is true and obvious. But why this title Batavia, and what is it's history?

Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batavia
Batavia (region), a land inhabited by the Batavian people during the Roman Empire, today part of the Netherlands

So, I look up about the region called Batavia

Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batavia_(region)
Batavia was the name used by the Roman Empire for the land of the Batavians, a Germanic tribe. This was roughly the area around the modern city of Nijmegen, Netherlands
and
During the Renaissance, Dutch historians tried to promote these Batavians to the status of "forefathers" of the Dutch people

This second part is what draws the largest connection to me. It has long been questioned if Adam was German or Dutch, and this could very easily clear it up

If you are in the Indonesia the fact that you are German or Dutch is small. I have seen forefathers in Indonesia change from German into Dutch, Just because they work or fight for the Dutch.

Nobody lived in Indonesia. You can keep your opinions of what you view is large or small to yourself. I wouldn't tell you that something that you were interested in is not important.

You have to consider that Germans often use the term "Deutsch", which can easily be confused with "Dutch".

In fact, if my memory is accurate, the use of the term "Dutch" to refer to people from the Netherlands is mistakenly derived from the very same word "Deutsch".

Adam Brouwer

Germans say Deutsch to mean the language of the Germans (spoken in German).

H, I appreciate you linking that profile, however that is merely one of the proposed fathers of Adam. I have seen zero evidence of a connection between Adam and Frans Simmonsen. Plus, those names are not dispersed in Adam's lineage.

Not only does the VoC documentation show Pieter from Ceulen, but Adam's son is named Pieter Adam who has a daughter named Cornelia Pietrese. Siblings of Cornelia include Jan Peter, Vroutje Pietrese, and Jacob Pieter, While theses child's mother is named Petronelia, I don't think you can draw their name connection to their mom.

Since Pieter Adam Brouwer seems to have been born in 1646, this appears to place him as the first born son. While this needs to be checked, I believe that in itself draws a strong connection with Adam's father. This is how the traditional naming conventions went.

While I can't state for certain, I do believe that the wealth of information is pointing to Pieter clements Brouwer as Adam's father.

Alex, that is one of life's Ironies, isn't it?

Jeroen, I do believe that I misunderstood what you were saying, and this stems from English not being your main language. I apologize. Perhaps you were saying that the difference is small? I can see how this can often be the case for many families, however mine has never claimed anything other than Dutch.

William I find your reply to Jeroen very unfriendly. It is very true what he says, on the other side of the world German or Dutch is not seen as a big difference.

It is very true that nobody lived in Indonesia in my family, so this was irrelevant. It is also very true that this offended me. I don't care if you think my response was unfriendly. Your response means even less because it is just a waste of time.

I don't care what others think is a small difference, or no big deal. It is as if you are telling me that my opinions are non valid. That my dear is more insulting than anything u have ever said.

Jeanette had given me a great archive to look at and Alex gave me an interesting but of history to research. I personally don't believe that deutsch led to Dutch, but it is quite similar. I admit that I don't know the root of these words, but I will find out. My point is these two have helped.

You miss Berthine, and the other guy have contributed nothing. Don't be upset at me for responding that it is a big difference and that is a big deal to me.

I hope there are more useful people like Jeanette and Alex here.

Dutch, Deutsch, Danish, all people living in the DELTA of Europe with rivers like RHINE and MOSEL, Donau and so on, to flow through landscapes to seas like the NORTH Sea with so many nice fish to eat and the OOSTZEE, benorth Germany, so sometimes we clumps around with very wetty feet in wooden shoes, you see?

The less we care about what's happening on the other side of the globe, the smaller our world becomes.

My son Piet, lives in Australia, in DIASPORA of the white South Africans, Because the English speaking people can not pronounce Piet in the right phonetic way he change his name to Pete.
To his surprise he met there an Indonesian also called Piet who has the same problem. The Indonesian exclaimed that he was called after his Dutch great grandfather.
I agree with Francois

A few variations but basically all confirm my comment.

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The English Dutch, the Dutch dietsch, and the German deutsch are cognate words. They have the same etymological origin, deriving from the Common West Germanic theodisca, which meant '(language) of the (common) people'. During the early Middle Ages, the elite mostly used Latin and the common people used their local languages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodiscus

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The word Dutch is the English counterpart of the Dutch words “Diets” and “Duits”. In Dutch “Duits” means “German”, where the Germans call themselves “Deutsche”. Around 1300 in the northern and eastern part of the Netherlands the word was: “duutsc” and as the Frisian people (living in the North) spoke a language much more alike English, the English adapted “dutch” from Frisian “duutsc”. We, the Dutch, started using the word “duutsc” or “dietsc” = “Duits” for our German neighbors.

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The word Dutch it appears was derived from a pre-fifteenth century dialect word “Duutsc” which was a lowlands variation of the modern day German word Deutsch literally meaning to (or of) the people. So when Flemish weavers and traders from what is present day Belgium arrived in England during the early wool trade and speaking the West Flemish dialect of Dutch, the English may not have found Duutsc an easy word to get their tongues around resulting in an easier variation entering the English lexicon – Dutch.

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In Old English dutch simply meant “people or nation.” (This also explains why Germany is called Deutschland in German.) Over time, English-speaking people used the word Dutch to describe people from both the Netherlands and Germany. (At that point in time, in the early 1500s, the Netherlands and parts of Germany, along with Belgium and Luxembourg, were all part of the Holy Roman Empire.) Specifically the phrase “High Dutch” referred to people from the mountainous area of what is now southern Germany. “Low Dutch” referred to people from the flatlands in what is now the Netherlands.

The point that i was making was in response to when u earlier said

"It has long been questioned if Adam was German or Dutch, and this could very easily clear it up"

My point being that while there is a clear and precise separation in your mind between the two words for many other people they were basically interchangeable meaning in his life time Adam could quite easily have been both Dutch and German. The issue compounded by lack of literacy and lack of standardised spelling in this era.