Alice - Is the wife of Bertram Haget the daughter of Gundreda de Gournay?

Started by Erica Howton on Sunday, May 24, 2015
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5/24/2015 at 1:55 PM

https://books.google.com/books?id=PLALAAAAYAAJ&vq=Gundred&p...

Lower Wharfedale: Being a Complete Account of the History, Antiquities and Scenery of the Picturesque Valley of the Wharfe, from Cawood to Arthington (Google eBook) Harry Speight E. Stock, 1902 - Wharfedale (England). - 532 pages.  Page 334

It is not very clear how Wighill came into possession of the Mowbrays and Fitz Alans. But Gundreda, granddaughter of William de Warrene, married Nigel de Albini, of the house of Mowbray, and Gundreda, wife of Bertram Haget, founder of Healaugh Priory, was probably her daughter.§ 

In 1185 the Knights Templars held three carucates of land in Wighill of Robert, Lord Mowbray ; * and about 1200, Lucia, daughter of Bertram Haget, inherited part of Wighill and Easedyke from her father. She married Turet, grandson of a Saxon lord of that name at Wroxeter, in Salop, and demised her estate to her son Bartholomew. This Bartholomew dying without issue, his sister, Lucia Turet, succeeded to Wighill, and conveyed it by marriage to the Blancmonsters, an old Cornish family, long resident in the Scilly Islands. 

§ See Yorks. Archal.Jl., iv . page 152.

Gundred de Gournay

5/25/2015 at 9:19 AM

Note:

Another source has the wife of Betram ll Haget as Alice, daughter of Walter de Friston

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2004-12/...

Which offers corrections to http://www.1066.co.nz/library/battle_abbey_roll2/subchap103.htm

5/25/2015 at 1:24 PM

OK looks like Alice Friston was the wife of Geoffrey Haget, Bertram's brother and also the name of his nephew

From http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=wtm2&...

RESEARCH NOTES:
a discussion of gifts by Gundreda Haget and others to Fountains abbey ends with the statement "At an earlier date Matthew de Brame had released to Geoffrey Haget all claim to the inheritance of Geoffrey Haget, uncle of the said Geoffrey." This infers a relationship between the two Geoffrey Hagets as uncle and nephew. Confirmation of this is found in a charter for Gundreda Haget's gift to Sinningthwaite of the advowson of the church of Bilton, Yorks, in which she refers to Bertram haget as her father. It is therefore clear that Gundreda Haget and her siblings were the children of Bertram II Haget, not of his brother Geoffrey [Ref: Bevan DD++ p1002]

Sources with Inaccurate Information:
parents: Geoffrey HAGET (#200325) & Alice de FRISTON (#200330) [Ref: Keats-Rohan DD p1002]

5/26/2015 at 12:14 PM

Thank you, Erica! Very interesting!

5/26/2015 at 1:58 PM

Linda I'd love your opinion & on how to handle it in Geni.

Luckily Gundred de Gournay has been DIS proven as "daughter of Matilda of Flanders, queen consort of William the Conqueror" so the stakes are not as high (imagine the screams ...).

There are no daughters listed for Nele d'Aubigny, Lord of Mowbray which is in itself suspicious to me ... Surely they had?

There would be 4 gens of "Gundreda's" if this "probably" is at all accurate. That "feels" like it's the right track ....

5/26/2015 at 10:43 PM

Sounds probable that Gundreda d'Aubigny is the dau. of Gundreda de Gournay & Neil d'Aubigny. If we say, for the sake of argument, that the dates are correct, Neil would have been about 52 when she was born - not improbable. But, his wife was only 28, so no problem there.
Gundreda wasn't a common name; at least, from what I've seen. So, the fact that the name appears in 4 generations lends weight.

5/27/2015 at 1:06 AM

So let's try & track the Wighall etc property a little more, as thats a basis for the "probably."

The 1st Gundreda was a bit extraordinary: a medieval woman wielding power (and her own signature authority). And it seems the subsequent Gundreda's were also able administrators.

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