Humphrey Wise - Humphrey Wise/Wyse/Wythe/Wyeth, parentage & wife

These are what I would consider personal views as they contain no sourced references about the parentage and surname of Humphrey's wife.

http://www.hampton.lib.nh.us/hampton/genealog/grantees.htm

http://americanheritagefamilies.com/wc53/wc53_424.htm

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=60381886

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=60381842

http://famouskin.com/family_group.php?name=3502+richard+nixon&a...

http://famouskin.com/family_group.php?name=15650+herbert+hoover&amp...

http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p20.htm#i587

Repost

I'd like to know more about this from Linda Mac at FindAGrave, she often sources from The Great Migration Project

"Wythe married at Nacton, Suffolk, 8 April 1616 Susan Pakeman, bp. Nacton 8 March 1597, daughter of Christopher Pakeman. "

Thanks for that tidbit Erica; I'm wondering if that's the right Humphrey Wise. In following my lines I've seen the same first names repeated over and over through the generations, including cousins, which could be the source of the confusion over whether this particular Humphrey Wise's wife was Susanna Tidd or Pakeman. Or perhaps the confusion is between two men named Humphrey, one with the last name Wise and the other with the last name Wyeth or Wythe.

I'm descended from their daughter Susannah, and the date my brother has for her birth (not definite) is 1614; if it's correct, then her parents married two years after she was born, which was totally unacceptable in that age. In addition, the place of birth my brother has for her is Hillmorton, which is near Coventry, far to the north of Suffolk. This makes me think that Wythe & Susan Pakeman are different people, and that this Humphrey Wise's wife was probably Susanna Tidd.

Amy

Carole, thanks for sharing all these great links!

The ancestor's in this line are not correct according to Col. John Wise of England and Virginia (1617-1695) ; his ancestors and descendants

Serlonius Wise of Thurlestone
His dates are too early for this connection.

This line is for ancestors of Thomas Wise of Sidenham husband of Mary Buller who died 27 Jan. 1593-93, (I have just contacted the managers about the death date error)

Col. John Wise of England and Virginia (1617-1695) ; his ancestors and descendants (1918)
https://archive.org/details/coljohnwiseofeng00wise
https://archive.org/stream/coljohnwiseofeng00wise#page/22/mode/1up
Pg.22

&
https://archive.org/stream/agenealogicalan04burkgoog#page/n41/mode/1up

I was not able to find any Wyse/Wise in the 2 vol.s of the Suffolk Visitation.

Could Thomas Wise have the wrong death date? I haven't found any information with a search.

Agnes Wise was merged into Anges (Unknown) wife of John Wise
Curator Note from Carole (Erickson) Pomeroy, Vol. Curator (1/30/2014):
Agnes (Unknown); wife of John Wise; parents of Humphrey Wise;
Was effected by Vandalism 28 Jul. 2013

I don't know much about these profiles and probably just went with what had been originally entered. It's been long enough I don't remember.

Amy

Re: "This makes me think that Wythe & Susan Pakeman are different people, and that this Humphrey Wise's wife was probably Susanna Tidd."

Great point. I think I remember thinking that Wyeth & Wise had been conflated. Can you get more details on daughter Susannah?

I had made myself curator of this profile a few days ago but I changed that status just now. I'm going to work on sorting all this out but won't curate him until I can get a better understanding of who is who. I have two source books -- Noyes-Libby-Davis and Pope (MA) -- that have pieces on him.

Carole -- thanks for sharing all those links. I'm matching what you've sent against what I already had.

Best regards,

Bob Hanscom

I had made myself curator of this profile a few days ago but I changed that status just now. I'm going to work on sorting all this out but won't curate him until I can get a better understanding of who is who. I have two source books -- Noyes-Libby-Davis and Pope (MA) -- that have pieces on him.

Carole -- thanks for sharing all those links. I'm matching what you've sent against what I already had.

Best regards,

Bob Hanscom

Thanks Carole...

This profile Thomas Wise of Sidenham has been mashed up with his son and possibly grandson as well.

The Thomas Wise who was the son of John Wise and Alicia Harris was NOT a knight and NOT a Member of Parliament. He had four brothers (John Wise of Totnes, James, Charles, and Erkenbold). He did marry Mary Buller, but it was HIS SON Thomas who was the MP and KB. Thomas senior died in 1593.

Thomas junior is the person found in History of Parliament Online http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/wi.... He had two sons, one of whom died within his lifetime (1576-1629/30), and two daughters.

The son who survived was also named Thomas (1605-1641) http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/wi... . Thomas III had wretched luck in heirs, two sons dying without issue and the third, Edward http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1660-1690/member/wi... , leaving only one surviving daughter. It was left to collateral lines to carry on the family name.

And I'm afraid that blows the idea that Col. John Wise Sr. was of *that* line completely out of the water. No reason he couldn't have belonged to one of the collateral lines, though.

Patricia Ann Scoggin

you had had an interest in this line ....

Carole, thanks for all the info... I am sooooooo confused!!! Depending on the spelling of Humphrey's last name (Wise or Wyeth) and who his wife is... he is my 9th great grandfather or my 10th great uncle!!! All of my info comes from the internet, so depends on the work of others.

Humphrey Wise (my 9th ggf)

Humphrey Wise (my 10th great uncle)

I also descend from his daughter Susanna (born abt 1619).
Pat

ps:
This site seems to have a lot of documentation...
http://nefamilies.com/fam/groupsheetI1000013512.aspx
Individual: Humphrey Wythe 

ooops! I descend from Humphrey & Susanna Wise's dtr Mary (1623-1706) who married Abraham Perkins, NOT Susanna who married his brother, Isaac Perkins.

Thank you all but I have not found anything yet that would be of help with the issues.

Patricia the link for the nefamilies does not work for me. Do you need to be a member of the site?

Private User

Would it have not been easier just to change the suffix and the dates for Thomas Wise of Sidenham & remove Col. John Wise Sr. as a son? Instead of changing the names and entering new profiles for Mary Buller & Thomas Wise?

Thomas Wise of Sidenham & Mary Wise have several managers which would probably like to have their line corrected and connected in the appropriate way.

His wife Mary Wise is connected to parents which seem correct.

You have a point, but they were also displaced on the tree - it got very messy.

Here are a few more

A register of the ancestors of Dorr Eugene Felt and Agnes (McNulty) Felt (1921)
https://archive.org/details/aregisterancest00feltgoog
https://archive.org/stream/aregisterancest00feltgoog#page/n242/mode...
Pg.154
DAVID2 WHEELER, born in England, is stated to have been brought to America in the ship "Confidence" in 1638 by a friend of his father. He married in Newbury, Mass., May 11, 1650, Sarah Wise, daughter of Humphrey and Susan Wise.
https://archive.org/stream/aregisterancest00feltgoog#page/n244/mode...
Pg.156
HUMPHREY1 WISE was a proprietor in Ipswich, Mass., in 1635, where he died in 1638. He had a wife Susan, who after his death married Samuel Greenfield.
Humphrey and Susan Wise had 5 children, one of them being a daughter Sarah, who married in Newbury, May 11, 1650, David Wheeler.
__________________________
Genealogical Dictionary of Maine and New Hampshire
Pg.773
Wyeth, Mr. Humphrey (Withe, Wise), Ipswich 1635, d. soon leaving a wid. Susanna whose 2d husb. Samuel Greenfield (1) took over the prop. without authority bef. Mar. 1638-9; Essex Prob. i: 11. George Gidding and Richard Lumpkyn were named overseers for the ch. Married ch. who had their portions incl: Abigail, m. 1st Thomas Jones(42), m. 2d Thomas Chadwell(3 jr.), and appar. Mary, w. of Abraham Perkins(1). Susanna, not named with minor ch., m. John Bursley(4), but poss. had an earlier husb. as unlikely she m. B. by 1639. Minor ch: Benjamin, apprent. to Abraham Perkins for 7 yrs. from 29 Sept. 1638; Hampt. gr. 1644; List 392a. In May 1649 his step-fa. deeded Hampt. land except what already sold to Thomas Jones and B. W. Joseph, poss. the wit. paid fees in Apr. 1649 (Essex Q. Ct. Rec. i: 167), was claimed by Edw. Gilman in Mar. 1650, but turned over to G. Gidding who was to bind him out in Ipsw. Em, unmarried in Dec. 1649 (Essex Q. Ct. Rec. i: 182), poss. m. Richard Carle(1). Sarah, m. David Wheeler(1). Ann, wit. a Bursley deed as A. W. 25 Mar. 1648, m. 1st William Taylor(24), m. 2d George Pearson(2).
From: http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=gendime&rank=1&am...
________________________
Essex Institute historical collections (1859-c1993)
http://archive.org/details/essexinstitutehi53esseuoft
http://archive.org/stream/essexinstitutehi53esseuoft#page/241/mode/1up
Pg.241
8. SAMUEL GREENFIELD. A weaver from Norwich; examined for passage to New England 12 May, 1637, with his wife Barbara and two children, Barbara and Mary.57 Settled first in Salem and then in Ipswich. At the latter place he married (2) circa 1638, Susan, widow of Humphrey Wyth or Wise, and they sold to Thomas Emerson, 4 March, 1638-9, the 100-acre farm granted to Wyth.58 Removed to Hampton in 1639, but left there before 1641 for Exeter. At Exeter, in 1641, his daughter Mary was ravished by Jonathan Thing, who was ordered to be whipped and to pay a fine of £20 to Greenfield.59 The inhabitants of Exeter petitioned the General Court in 1644 to allow Greenfield to sell wine, but the court ordered that this be denied "vntill the Corte have a more full and satisfactory account of him.60 Apparently he reinstated himself in their opinion, for 6 May, 1646,
61 .... etc.
http://archive.org/stream/essexinstitutehi53esseuoft#page/242/mode/1up
with Anthony Stanian and James Wall, he was appointed to end small causes under 20s.61 Falling again from grace, the Salem court, in April, 1649, found him guilty of "singing a lascivious song and using unseemly gestures therewith". He was sentenced to be whipped or fined £6.62 He chose to pay the fine. Again, in December, 1649, the Salem court (on deposition of William Howard and Mary Perkins that he had altered in his own name a bill of sale to his stepdaughter, Emma Wyth), continued the case to the Boston court on charge of forgery, the court being informed that he was in the prison at Boston.62 After this we hear no more of him.
_______________________
A genealogical dictionary of the first settlers of New England showing three generations of those who came before May, 1692, on the basis of Farmer's Register (1860) Vol.4
http://archive.org/details/agenealogicaldi06dextgoog
http://archive.org/stream/agenealogicaldi06dextgoog#page/n622/mode/1up
Pg.614
.... HUMPHREY, Ipswich 1639, had w. Susanna, and ch. Benjamin, Joseph, Emma, Sarah, and Ann, when he d. His wid. m. Samuel Greenfield.
________________________
A genealogical dictionary of the first settlers of New England showing three generations of those who came before May, 1692, on the basis of Farmer's Register (1860) Vol.2
http://archive.org/details/genealogicaldic02savarich
http://archive.org/stream/genealogicaldic02savarich#page/307/mode/1up
Pg.307
.... SAMUEL, Salem, a weaver, of Norwich, Co. Norfk. came in the Mary Ann from Yarmouth 1637, aged 27, with w. Barbara, 35, two ch. Mary, and Barbara, beside John Teed, a serv. 19 ; ,was a short time at Ipswich, but of Hampton 1639, and of Exeter 1645. He m. sec. w. Susan, wid. of Humphrey Wise ; had gr. of Id. at Salem, but perhaps did not take it.
__________

I have un-merged John Wise & Agnes Wise from Benjamin Wythe & Emme Wyeth

And reverted their facts - name, etc. to what was previous to the merges.

I'm afraid I can't find anymore published material that will help.

Carole (Erickson) Pomeroy,Vol. Curator
I couldn't get the site that I mentioned above to work either when I just tried it. Here is the info that I obtained when I originally found the site/info. Don't know if it helps or not!!!

http://nefamilies.com/fam/groupsheetI1000013512.aspx

Individual: Humphrey Wythe 
• Birth: ABT 1591 at: Harkstead, Suffolk, England 
• Marriage: 8 Apr 1616 at: Nacton, Suffolk, England 
• Death: 13 Mar 1638 at: Ipswich, Essex, Massachusetts 
• Father: Benjamin Wythe 
• Mother: Emma Jannings 
• Spouse: Susannah Pakeman 
• Birth: ABT 1595 at: , , England 
• Marriage: 8 Apr 1616 at: Nacton, Suffolk, England 
• Death:  at:  
• Father: Christopher Pakeman 
• Mother: Margaret Julye 
• Children: 
• Mary Wythe
• Abigail Wythe
• Susannah Wythe
• Benjamin Wythe
• Joseph Wythe
• Emma Wythe
• Ann Wythe
• Sarah Wythe

• Source 1: Genealogical Dictionary of Main and New Hampshire, by Libby. pp 773, 122,128, 134, 288, 388, 536, 675, 743;
The name is also spelled Wyeth, Withe, Wyth, Wieth & also Wise;
• Source 2: The Probate Records of Essex county, Mass., Vol. 1 p11. Humphrey Wheth, whose last name also appears as Withe and Wise, etc., arrived in Ipswich, Essex, Massachusetts by 1635 with his wife Susannah and several children; but he was not destined to earn great fortunes in the New World, for soon after getting settled with a house and farm he died. Humphrey left no will;
Samuel Greenfield married his widow, Susannah, taking into his own possession, the lands and goods of Humphrey Wise. On 13 March 1638/39, the court at Ipsiwch was ordered to settle all things belonging to the estate. Samuel was appointed administrator, and with his consent the court sold the house, the house lot consisting of an acre, a planting lot of six acres; Also a farm of about 120 acres, as well as made other sales of cattle and goods. The money was given to Samuel Greenfield to bring up the five minor children; Benjamin, Joseph, Em., Sarah & Ann, the married children having already received their portions.
• Source 3: Ipswich in the Massachusetts Bay Colony, pg: 13:
Humphrey (spelled Wythe) name appears on a list of First Settlers of Ipswich in 1635;
 • Source 4: The American Genealogist 68: 220
Humphrey Wythes Will was considered fro disbursement on 26 March 1639.
• Source 5: On Line:http://www.chesbro.net/tng/getperson.php?personID-163989&tree-C... 25 2006;
• Source 6: ON Line: RootsWebs WorldConnect Poject
• Source 7: Pedigree Resource File (PRF) The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. (Family Search) 1999-2005 by Intellectual Reserv, Inc: Compact Disc 322.
• Source 8: The Ancient Records of the Town of Ipswich, Mass., 1899
• Source 9: Records of the Tovernor and Company of the Massachusetts Bay in New England, 5 vols. (Boston, 1853-54), 1: 254
• Source 10: Genealogical Dictionary of Maine and New Hampshire (Portland, Maine, 1928-391;
• Source 11: Ipswich England Public Library; (
• Source is listed in The American Genealogist Vol1. 68: English Ancestry of the Wythes of Ipswich, Mass by Clifford L. Stott:)
 An important clue to the English origin of the Wythe family is found in a deed deposited in the Ipswich (England) Public Librayr. On 31 Dec 1632, John Cooke of Shortley, county Suffolk, husbandman, sold five acres of land in the parish of Woolverstone, to Humphrey Wythe of Woolverstone, mariner
• Source 12: Parish Registers of Woolverstone, Suffolk, England
 This source contains entries which apply to our Wyeth family;
• Source 13: Probate Records of Essex County, Massachusetts, 3 vols. (Salem, Mass, 1916-20), 1: 11
• Source 14: Genealogical Dictionary of Maine and New Hampshire (Portland, Maine, 1928-39);
• Source 15: Parish Registers of Woolverstone, Suffolk, England:


Pat

Thank you Pat

Some of the references I have already posted here.
Genealogical Dictionary of Main and New Hampshire
The Probate Records of Essex county, Mass., Vol. 1

This I could not find
Parish Registers of Woolverstone, Suffolk, England

These I was not able to find Humphrey Wythe listed.
The American Genealogist
Ipswich in the Massachusetts Bay Colony

These I was able to find but they still do not list Humphrey's wife's maiden name or his parents.
The ancient records of the town of Ipswich: vol. 1- from 1634 to 1650 by Ipswich (Mass. : Town); Schofield, George A.
https://archive.org/details/ancientrecordsof00ipsw
https://archive.org/stream/ancientrecordsof00ipsw#page/n27/mode/1up
Granted to Humphrey Wyth in the year 1636, a house lott, one acre of ground, lying on the South syde the Town River, having a house lott on Symon Thomson on the North and a house lott formerly granted to John Meriall on the South. Also six acres of planting ground on the South side of Hartbreake Hill, having a planting lott of Richard Haffield on the Northwest, and a planting lott of Alexander Knight on the East. Also for a farm one hundred acres of Land, more or less, as it lyeth on the South syde of a creeke called the Labour in vayne, having a parcell of Land granted to George Carr on the West, Thomas Borman's Land on the North, Mr. Ward's farme on the East, Mr. Denison's farme on the South,, To enjoy all the said Lands to him his heirs and assigns forever. Entered into the Town Book folio 16.
https://archive.org/stream/ancientrecordsof00ipsw#page/n50/mode/1up
February the 15 th 1638.
Granted the same day and yeare above written to Susan Manning an house lott one acre .... etc.
Memorand, that whereas Samuell Greenfield now of this Towne of Ipswich, husbandman, being lawfully possessed of all the Landes formerly granted to Humphry Wyth, deceased, by marriage of Susan late wyfe of the sayd Humphry Wyth deceased, now the sayd Samuell Greenfield, together with the consent of his sayd wyfe, hath sould unto Thomas Emerson of this towne of Ipswich also husbandman, all that psell of Land formerly granted the foresayd Humphry Wyth for a farme, lying on the South syde of the great creeke called the Labour in vayne, bounded on the West, by a psell of Land granted to George Carr, on the North by the Land of Thomas Boreman, on the East by Mr. Nathanell Ward, his farme, on the South by Mr. Daniell Denison, his farme, and the sayd Samuell Greenfield doeth by these presents for good considerations him thereunto moveing, sell and alienate unto the sayd Thomas Emerson, all the
https://archive.org/stream/ancientrecordsof00ipsw#page/n51/mode/1up
foresayd Land, being one hundred acres more or less, lying and bounded as above written, and is to be seen in this booke folio 16 more at large, also all timber, watercourse, buildings, fencing and all other the apurtenances to the sayd Lands, together with all the title, interest and claim, that the sayd Samuell or Susan his wife hath or hath had unto the sayd Land and to part and psell of the same, or any the premises, and the sayd Thomas Emerson to enjoy the sayd Land, together with all the premises, to him his heirs and assigns forever. Entered by theyr joynt order and consent the 4th day of March 1638.
_______________
Records of the governor and company of the Massachusetts bay in New England. Printed by order of the legislature by Massachusetts (Colony); Shurtleff, Nathaniel Bradstreet ....
https://archive.org/details/recordsofgoverno01mass
https://archive.org/stream/recordsofgoverno01mass#page/254/mode/1up
1638-9.
The Courte at Ipswich had order to examine and settle all things belonging to the estate of Humfrey Wiffe, & also for the land, sould & vnsould./
_______________

Erica Howton, thanks for anything you can add to the Wise/Wythe + debate. Please add a comment at the top of his daughter Mary (Mary Perkins) as she is my 8th g-gm and her FAG lists her maiden name as "Wythe". I have made a comment at the beginning of her ABOUT section about the maiden name confusion. If you want to delete that and add your findings about the name that would help clarify why some places say one thing and some places another name.

Merry Christmas & keep warm,
Thank you for all your help,
Pat

Erica Howton. Thank you so much for all of the time it has taken you to fix this family. I really appreciate all of your time, knowledge, research and work required for this group. Your are fantastic!!! Now I have to make all of the changes for the children they had with Susanna Tidd as parent in my computer program, but that is nothing compared to what you have accomplished!!!!

It really upsets me sometimes when some Geni members are so unappreciative of the work you and all of the other curators voluntarily provide for us!!!

As I have said before, I don't know when you sleep as I see you are online helping sooooo many at all times of the day and night. God bless you & Angels be with you. Happy New Year!!!
Pat