'Aisha binte ʻUthmān - Mother of Aisha

Private MacIsaac Writes:

I was referred onto you by another user, who said you could help. The question concerns Aicha bint Uthman, daughter (supposedly) of Ruqayyah bint Muhammad. I'm having trouble here. The person who I contacted said on a forum that some of the later Umayyad Caliphs claimed that Aicha was Ruqayyah's daughter. Searching online, I cannot find this reference, but Islamic sources can be a nightmare - either they remain untranslated, or haven't yet been put online. I wonder if you can add to all this? I'm just needing a clear source to validate that claim about the Caliph stating this as the correct genealogy. If not, it seems that this connection is highly dubious.

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I do see an Islamic source for her father (not her mother). I don’t this that - or her husband & son - is disputed.

From https://ar.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%B9%D8%A7%D9%88%D9%8A%D8%A... Google translated from Arabic:

Uthman left with the Prophet to the battle of Hamra al-Assad , but Muawiyah stayed until the third day to know the news of the Prophet and bring it to the Quraysh. When it was on the fourth day, the Prophet said: “Muawiyah has become close and has not been executed, so ask for him.” Zaid bin Haritha and Ammar bin Yasir came out to him and found him in al-Jama’ and hit him Zaid with the sword, and they shot him with an arrow, and they killed him, then they left for Medina with his news. [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

His daughter, Aisha, married the fourth Caliph of the Umayyad Caliphs, Marwan bin Al-Hakam , and she is the mother of the fifth Caliph Abd Al-Malik bin Marwan . [8]

8. Kamil fi Al-Tarikh Ibn Al-Atheer, The Comprehensive Encyclopedia. Retrieved August 202016 a copy reserved December 31, 2018 onsite Wai Pak

So to me, the Geni tree looks “best we know.” I don’t have sources for “a descent from Mohammed”, and apparently that’s controversial, even within the Arab world.

Which emir? Can you find a profile that claims this descent?

Here’s a Umayyad family tree:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_dynasty#/media/File:Umayads.gif

Bit of an issue with Aicha here - A'isha binte Mu'awiyah is not the same individual as Aicha bint Uthman al-Umayyah. The person I'm discussing is Aicha bint Uthman, who was referenced in the discussion I sent, but misattributed to A'isha bint Mu'awiyah.

I'm wondering what Caliphs were referenced by the comment from Justin Swanstrom? That's so I can find a real source from the period.

I'll send you this Wikipedia link - and again the issue of Aicha's mother is under debate, but the genealogical table shows that she was considered a daughter of another one of Caliph Uthman's wives:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_Uthman#Children_and_De...

The problem we're all having is that Aicha bint Uthman is still connected to Ruqayyah bint Muhammad, in other webpages. It's the sources that Swanstrom mentioned which I'm after.

(Previous post is copy of mail from Private MacIsaac)

Aisha bint 'Uthman ibn 'Affan

This is the Master Profile for Aisha bint 'Uthman ibn 'Affan.

Curator Note from Hatte Anne (Rubenstein) Blejer (1/23/2020):

Aisha bint Uthman is not the daughter of Ruqayyah, who only had one child, a son named Abdullah. Aisha is shown to be her daughter on many websites online. The mother of Aisha bint Uthman was another wife of Uthman, Ramlah binte Shaibah.

Hatte Rubenstein Blejer - can I trouble you to help out? I’m going very slowly and only following the notes on Geni & Wikipedia, as this is all new to me.

Anthony is looking for the source of the disputed genealogy, what Justin called controversial.

It looks like she’s married on Geni to her 1/2 brother, Caliph ʻUthmān Ibn ʻAffān Both children of Caliph ʻUthmān Ibn ʻAffān

https://en.rodovid.org/wk/Person:114703 Has

Lineage Bani Umayyah
Sex Female
Full name (at birth) Aisha Bint Uthman
Other last names Al-Umayyah
Other given names Umm Aban

Parents
♂ w Uthman Ibn Affan (Al-Umayyah) [Bani Umayyah] b. 609 d. 656
Events

623 birth:

Sources

Genealogy and Knowledge in Muslim Societies: Understanding the Past. Sarah Bowen Savant. Edinburgh University Press, Apr 8, 2014 - - Four wives of Marwan includes Umm Aban ("mother of Aban" who was the daughter of his cousin and half brother 'Uthman ibn Affan')

http://www.alim.org/library/biography/khalifa/content/KUT/1/3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_Uthman

Aisha bint Uthman was married to Marwan I ibn al-Hakam who was her first cousin once removed. They had a daughter who later married Musa ibn Nusayr.

Marwân I bin al-Hakam al-Qurayshi

Family 3

Aisha bint 'Uthman ibn 'Affan b. circa 617

Child

N. N. bint Marwân ibn al-Hakam+ b. c 659

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Did she go missing from correct husband?

It looks to me like Aisha bint 'Uthman ibn 'Affan needs be disconnected as wife of her 1/2 brother Imam Abdullah Bin Usman (looks like error) & her unsourced fiancé yazid bin muawiyah

She shows as mother of Umm bint Marwan (reference in profile); Amîna binte Marwân I bin al-Hakam married to Uthman bin Musa al-Bekir (no references); and Uthman bin Musa al-Bekir married N.N. (no references).

Feedback, please.

http://www.morganlefay.ca/CD/Richards%20en/INDIs39/II20941.html#pedi

A'isha was born about 0623 in Makkah (Mecca, مكة‎), Saudi Arabia , the daughter of ‘Uthmān ibn Affan and Ruqayyah bint Muhammad. [SIC] Her husband was Marwan ibn al-Hakam. They were married, but the date and place have not been found. Their only known child was Umm (c0648-?).

Note 1: This line is probably fictitious

Cross reference another discussion.

https://www.geni.com/discussions/156164?msg=1085433

Wikipedia says Ruqayyah bint Muhammad had only one child, a son who died aged 6. According to one researcher, Aisha was a daughter of Uthman and a subsequent wife. See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ruqayyah_bint_Muhammad#Her_child...

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So I think we had corrected this spurious descent:

Her children - and grandchildren??

According to the fairly well respected website Geni.com, Ruqayyah had lines of descendants extending to the present day. See, for example, that website's claim that Muhammad is my "42nd great grandfather". The line gives Ruqayyah a daughter, 'Aisha binte ʻUthmān, then reaches Zaragoza after four more generations, stays in what is now Spain for over a dozen more, then moves to England with the mother of Edward II.

Is it nevertheless true to say, as the article virtually says, that Ruqayyah had no grandchildren or later descendants?

Here’s the scholarly reference for Aisha:

Aisha bint Uthman was the daughter of one of Uthman's subsequent wives, Ramla bint Shayba (see Ibn Saad/Bewley vol. 3 p. 39).Petra MacDonald (talk) 23:07, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marwan_I

Marwan had at least sixteen children, among them at least twelve sons from five wives and an umm walad (concubine).[6]

From his wife A'isha, a daughter of his paternal first cousin Mu'awiya ibn al-Mughira, he had his eldest son Abd al-Malik, Mu'awiya and daughter Umm Amr.[6][7]

Umm Amr later married Sa'id ibn Khalid ibn Amr, a great-grandson of Marwan's paternal first cousin Uthman ibn Affan, who became caliph (leader of the Muslim community) in 644.[8]

Sources

Ahmed, Asad Q. (2010). The Religious Elite of the Early Islamic Ḥijāz: Five Prosopographical Case Studies. Oxford: University of Oxford Linacre College Unit for Prosopographical Research. ISBN 978-1-900934-13-8. https://books.google.com/books?id=v1dwdBDDjcUC

Donner, Fred M. (2014). "Was Marwan ibn al-Hakam the First 'Real' Muslim". In Savant, Sarah Bowen; de Felipe, Helena (eds.). Genealogy and Knowledge in Muslim Societies: Understanding the Past. Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press. pp. 105–114. ISBN 978-0-7486-4497-1. https://books.google.com/books?id=rySrBgAAQBAJ

Footnotes

6. Donner 2014, p. 110.
7. Ahmed 2010, p. 111.
8. Ahmed 2010, pp. 119–120

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musa_ibn_Nusayr Does not mention a name for his wife.