Robert Mudie (Moodie) - Riktig Robert Moodie?

Profilen er laget som masterprofil og dermed må du ta kontakt med en av de C-brukerne som er manager på Geni. Dere får prøve å finne ut om "nyere forsking" er mer riktig enn det som er skrevet inn i treet på Geni. Lykke til !

Arnfred Nilsen

I do not have any data on this to assist.

(Past posts translated from Norwegian to English)

@Gro-Linda Petersen Vedå

Recent research suggests that "our" Robert Moodie who came to Bergen was the son of Adam Moodie , but the bastard son of Francis Moodie . How one proceeds to correct family tree in relation to this ?

Nilsen PRO
Yesterday at 11:58 PM
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The profile is designed as master profile and thus you need to contact one of the C - users who are manager of Geni. You can try to find out about " recent research " is more appropriate than what is written into the tree on Geni. Good luck !

No problem, - show me reliable sources and we can change it.

På godt norsk: Kom med beviser og ikke bare påstander så er et ikke noe problem i å endre slike ting.

Bjorn,
Thanks for responding but I received the above posts and as I cannot read Norwegian, I used a translator and re-posted the English.
I have no knowledge about these profiles so will leave the matter to those closer to the Norwegian Tree than I am.

Regards

John

To John Sparkman :The Google translate from Norwegian to English is all right and we got meaning of it. I hope Bjørn take care of the rest in this case. Thanks for help to John.

Arnfred Nilsen

Hva blir det til? Har dere funnet endelige bevis for Robert Moodys opphav?

Jeg venter bare på henvisning til selve forskningen, dens argumentasjon og ikke minst dokumentasjon som er til grunnlag for den, så er jeg klar til å gjøre endringer.

Beklager at dette tar tid, men jeg avventer en bekreftet kopi av et sentralt dokument.

OK. Da vet vi imidlertid at ting er på gang! Bra jobba Gro-Linda.

1 Which Francis Moodie : There are more persons with this name. Please add geni link.
2. Roberts birth year must then fit his life and work in Norway.
3. Did he first go to Bergen, and later to Bjarkøy in North Norway?
4. Did there perhaps exist more than one Robert Moodie who we somehow mixed up ?
4 Which Source: Name of Institution / library / Document.

Det viser seg dessverre at en skotsk slektsforsker har gitt noe falsk informasjon her i denne saken. Et sentralt dokument fra 1600-tallet som angivelig skulle befinne seg i The National Records of Scotland, Edinburgh, viser seg å være fra 2015.
Bekreftet kopi av originaldokumentet ble aldri levert av den skotske slektsforskeren. Arkivet i Edinburgh har på forespørsel ikke funnet dette dokumentet i sine arkiver, noe som bekrefter mistanken om forfalskning fra slektsforskeren. Det sterkeste beviset for at Robert Mudie var sønn av Francis Mudie faller dessverre derfor bort.

OK, false alarm. It was a falsification from 2015.

It shows how important it is to ask for a copy of the documentation when some claims that it exist before making major changes.

Jeg har registrert at Robert Mudie sin mor er endret fra Christian Stewart til Grizzel Stewart. Kjenner du Bjørn til hvilke dokumentasjon som ligger til grunn for denne endringen?

No, - Private User should answer why he changed it.

If this is correct, it is necessary to have documentation on that.before changing.

This is about "Robert Moodie" who came to Bergen was the son of Adam Moodie , but someone is comming up he is "the bastard son" of Francis Moodie.

I regret to say that I do not speak Norwegian and cannot follow the discussion about Robert Mudie with any confidence. I did make some additions to his “overview” but the information I posted there came directly from The Moodie book, and, after a re-examination, I can find nothing contentious in it.

It would appear that Robert Mudie was personally present on the lands of Osmondwall, on the Orkney island of South Walls, on 25 July 1609, and that he was seriously assaulted there on that date, but it does not automatically follow from this fact that he is not the man of the same name who subsequently travelled to Norway and settled there.

I should also say that I did notice that one contributor mentioned the names of Christian and Grizel Stewart, and I have supposed, therefore, that the discussion should really be about the wife of Adam Mudie of Breckness.

According to the Marquis of Ruvigny and Raineval, Adam Mudie of Breckness married Christian Stewart. He was unable to identity this lady with any certainty, although he did suggest that she might have been a natural daughter of Robert Stewart, Earl of Orkney. [https://archive.org/stream/moodiebookbeinga00ruvi#page/n52/mode/1up The Moodie Book, p. 15]

The earliest evidence for the marriage of Adam Mudie of Breckness comes from an abridged transcript, originally in Latin, of a charter issued by Robert Stewart, feuar of the crown lands of Orkney and Shetland (afterwards Robert Stewart, Earl of Orkney). The charter was issued at Kirkwall in Orkney on 20 January 1563-64 and it was made in favour of: “Mr. William Mudy of Brecknes for his life and to Adam Mudye his eldest lawful son and Grizel Stewart, daughter of the said Robert Stewart, apparent spouse to the said Adam and the survivor of them in conjunct fee and their lawful heirs male.” [https://archive.org/stream/publicationsofsc27scot#page/271/mode/1up The Records of the Earldom of Orkney, p. 271]

I cannot say if Grizel Stewart is the same person as Christian Stewart, or if Adam Mudie of Breckness and his wife Grizel actually had any children but it might reasonably be concluded that they may have done. The possibility of this, not to say the probability of it, is suggested by two facts:

(1) The lands conveyed to Adam and his wife Grizel “and their lawful heirs male” included a quoy called Smethyquoy, a one penny land called Stannagart, and a seven penny three farthing land of king’s land in Uttir Stromness.

(2) Sixty-four years later, on 23 January 1628, these very same lands passed to Francis Mudie of Brekness, as heir of the deceased Adam Mudie of Brekness, his father. [http://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/details.aspx?... National Records of Scotland, Papers of the Scarth Family of Breckness, Orkney, reference GD217/5]

The evidence which I have cited here can hardly be regarded as conclusive, some further research is required, or so it seems to me, but I do believe that it is good enough to support the suggestion that Francis Mudie of Breckness is the son of Grizel Stewart.

Neil Reid Ford (29 August 2016)

Grizel and Christian are not the same person. The Moodie Book refers to several sources which are not consistent. It seems to me that Neil and also Gro Linda find the right conclusions. As Bjørn B. suggests, geni needs reliable and original documents as sources.

This case is hard to solve. Based on the two facts mention by Neil, it seems like Adam Mudie of Breckness married Grizel Stewart. Unfortunately, many conditions are not consistent with this theory.
1) If Adam died before 10 july 1577, his sons Francis and Robert Mudie was born before this. This means Robert Mudie who came to Norway, was a very old man when he died in 1666. This seems unlikely.
2) This document is evidence for Christian Stewart was the spouse of Adam Mudie of Breckness and Francis Mudie his oldest son;
NRS, CS226, 28 February 1598-9
Charter by Patrick, earl of Orkney, to Adam Mudie of Breckness for observing of his lordship's part of a contract and appointment made between him and the said Adam, with consent of Christian Stewart, spouse of the said Adam, and taking burden for Francis Mudie, his eldest son, and the other heirs named in the said contract; with sasine thereon
3) This document is evidence for Christian(e) Stewart was the mother of Francis Mudie of Breckness:
NRS, RD11, reg. 10 January 1609
Discharge by William Carmichael, merchant, citizen in Kirkwall, to James Stewart of Gramsay, for £40, in name and behalf of Cristiane Stewart, relict of the deceased Adam Mudie of Braknes, and Francis Mudie, her son, for 13 meills and 2 settings malt, good and sufficient stuff, fresh and merchant ware, contained in obligation, dated 30 December 1602 (reg. in books of council on 10 March 1603). William consents that Cristiane and Francis be relaxed from the process of horning.

Maybe we have two generations of Adam Mudi of Brecknes in this case?

I believe that the evidence cited by Gro-Linda should be accepted without question. It certainly leaves me in no doubt that Christian Stewart was the mother of Francis Mudie of Breckness (afterwards Francis Mudie of Melsetter) Presently, for want of evidence, it is impossible to reconcile this with the marriage to Grizel Stewart. Perhaps the name Christian has been transcribed as Grizel in error in the abridged charter which was printed in the Records of the Earldom of Orkney, or the marriage did not actually take place. This needs to be investigated but in the meantime I would propose that it be ignored and the Mudie family tree changed accordingly.

Neil (30 August 2016)

Who is going to change Adam Mudies spouse from Grizel Stewart back to Christian Stewart? Do we need a Curator?

I would be pleased to detach Grizel Stewart from Adam Mudie of Breckness and create a new profile for a wife named Christian Stewart based upon the charter evidence which has been provided by our fellow Geni member Gro-Linda Petersen Vada. I should point out, however, for the benefit of those Geni members who may have accepted as incontrovertible fact the tentative suggestion made by the Marquis of Ruvigny and Raineval's suggestion, that Christian Stewart is "probably the sister of James Stewart of Graemsay, and a natural daughter of Robert (Stewart), Earl of Orkney" [The Moodie Book https://archive.org/stream/moodiebookbeinga00ruvi#page/n52/mode/1up] that this has not yet been proved!

The evidence provided by Gro-Linda Petersen Vada follows:

NRS, TD94/21 - Snelsetter, 16 November 1595
Instrument of sasine at Breknes, 20 November 1595, following on feu charter in favour of Mr William Mudie of Breknes and Katherine Sinclair, his spouse, of 1 pennyland and 1 merk land in the isle of Gramsay, 3 merks land in [Thurwa?], in parish of Wawis and Hoy, 2 merks land in Utterstromnes, lying in parish thereof, 3 pennyland with the teindsheaves thereof in the utter town of Stromnes called the Uttertoun which sometime pertained to the sub-deanery of Orknay, the 8 pennyland lying on the west part of the burn of Donra, parish of Ra, Caithness, together with the lands of Schabuster in said parish, following charter by the king, 16 August 1591; and precept by Mr William Mudy of Breknes directed to Edward Sinclair in Lieger to give sasine to Mr William and Adam Mudy, his son, and Cristian Stewart, his spouse. Subscribed at Snelsetter, 16 November 1595, and witnessed by Robert Watson and Robert Wilsoun.

NRS, CS226, 28 February 1598-9
Charter by Patrick, earl of Orkney, to Adam Mudie of Breckness for observing of his lordship's part of a contract and appointment made between him and the said Adam, with consent of Christian Stewart, spouse of the said Adam, and taking burden for Francis Mudie, his eldest son, and the other heirs named in the said contract; with sasine thereon

NRS, RD11, reg. 10 January 1609
Discharge by William Carmichael, merchant, citizen in Kirkwall, to James Stewart of Gramsay, for £40, in name and behalf of Cristiane Stewart, relict of the deceased Adam Mudie of Braknes, and Francis Mudie, her son, for 13 meills and 2 settings malt, good and sufficient stuff, fresh and merchant ware, contained in obligation, dated 30 December 1602 (reg. in books of council on 10 March 1603). William consents that Cristiane and Francis be relaxed from the process of horning.

Neil Reid Ford (31 August 2016)

Thank you Neil Reid Ford.

The document relating Adam Mudie and Christiane Stewart from 1609 is impressive. Thank you Neil for good source work.