Antipas I, Governor of Idumaea - Incompatible Dates

I am still confused: Antipas I, Governor of Idumaea is listed as the father of Phallion of Idumaea-uncle of Herod the Great, Josephus of Judea-uncle of Herod the Great, and Antipater the Idumaen-father of Herod the Great.
Phallion: birth between 125-65 died 63
Josephus of Judea:birth circa 59 death 36
Antipater the Idumaean: birth circa 113 death 43
How then can their father be born in 79BCE?

I've been traveling across country, so will wait until I'm able to open the tree and take a proper look at what you are querying. Perhaps I'm just being dumb :-)

I am very interested in your findings and await your answer.

Okay, I'm not seeing the same dates you've given for Phallion, of Idumaea
On the Geni profile, his death is -63. and the birth date is empty, so the Geni programme puts "estimated between 74BCE and 42BCE" (That allows for his father's c 79 birthdate to be out by ten years).
This seems fine to me - am I being particularly obtuse in missing what you're saying?

Ahh, but the problem is with Phallion's brother, Antipater II. I see...:

In order to father Phasael, of Judea(b c-77) &
Herod the Great, de-facto King of Judea (b c-73),
Antipater II 'the Idumaean', Procurator of Judaea must be born before -92.

This pushes his father -Antipas I, Governor of Idumaea birthdate to at least -107.

Wagner, Sir Anthony Richard; ‘Pedigree and Progress: Essays in the Genealogical Interpretation of History’ estimates his birth date as c148BC, but this makes Josephus of Judea (uncle of Herod the Great) c birthdate -59 almost impossible.

I've removed dates from Phallion & Uncle Josephus, so they now read:

Phallion, of Idumaea
Birth: estimated between 143BCE and 83BCE
Death: -63 (Died in the civil war between Hyrcannus II & Aristobulus II)

Josephus of Judea (uncle of Herod the Great)
Birth: estimated between 125BCE and 65BCE
Death: -36 (Executed by King Herod The Great)

Thoughts?

I have one other concern about the geni profiles:
Antipas I Governor of Idumaea and his father Herodes geni profiles surely both can not have the same birthdays in -148.
I am only bringing this up because I am fascinated by Jerusalem in the first century during the time of Jesus. I have seen data from this period and I just wanted to clear some doubts I had about some of the information I read.
Thanks for all of your help.

Ahh - good catch. That's me misinterpreting the Wagner quote.

But, there are two Wagner Sources cited on these profiles:
On Antipas I, Governor of Idumaea:"Wagner, Sir Anthony Richard; ‘Pedigree and Progress: Essays in the Genealogical Interpretation of History’ estimates birth date as c148BC and does not call him Antipas Hasmonai, but Antipater"

On Herodes "Sir Anthony Richard Wagner, Pedigree and Progress: Essays in the Genealogical Interpretation of History (1975) lists Antipater I's father as Herodes b c148 BCE"

Justin Durand I think you have a copy of Wagner - can I get you to weigh in on this one?

Yes, I am also intrigued by this era: I've sent you an invite to my 'Herod & the Hasmoneans in the time of the biblical Jesus' project.

Herod "The Great", King of Judea is your 70th great grandfather.
I am also very interested in biblical, but I can not read the English language, as I looked translated through Google. I'm Finnish.

Sharon, did I ever respond to your question on this? If not, I can probably take a look in the next few days.

Yaaaay Justin Durand :-)

Sorry for the delay.

Wagner uses dates sparingly, assuming the reader needs only a skeletal summary. No dates here. He has Herod the Great, son of Antipater, procurator of Judaea, son of Antipater, governor of Idumaea. No father for the first Antipater.

I have a note that Antipater's father was Herodes (Herod), born, say 178 BCE. That should be enough to answer this specific question, but I wanted to track down a real source.

There are four versions of Herod the Great's ancestry.

1. Nicolaus of Damascus said Herod's father Antipater belonged to one of the leading Jewish families returned from Babylon. Josephus discounted this story because Nicholaus of Damascus was a friend of Herod's and the story seems designed to please him (Antiquities 14.9).

2. Justin Martyr said it was reported among Jews that Herod's father Antipater was an Ascalonite (Dialogue with Trypho, 52.3). Julius Africanus said Antipater's [presumably Antipater the governor] father was Herodes, a slave in the temple of Apollo. Antipater was taken prisoner by Idumaean robbers and raised by them because his father was too poor to ransom him. Africanus said he received this story from the kinsmen of Jesus (Epistola ad Aristidem).

3. Josephus said Herod was son of Antipater, procurator of Judaea, son of Antipater, governor of Idumaea, from an Idumaean family forcibly converted to Judaism (Antiquities 14.9). His is the standard version today.

4. The Talmud says Herod the Great was a Hasmonean slave. No genealogy (Baba Bathra 3b).

So, the short answer is that Herod's father and grandfather are from Josephus, and his great grandfather is from Julius Africanus.