There are problems with the Clifton family tree around this profile: @Robert Clifton
I am posting the emails that have been exchanged so far, but basically it appears that this profile is either in the wrong place in the tree or does not belong in the tree at all. Questions have also been raised about a Margaret Boteler or Butler (please see below).
I am tagging the managers of this profile, and other profiles that may be affected, but anyone is welcome to comment and offer assistance. Thank you.
@Geoff. Baines
@http://www.geni.com/people/Ernesto-Álvarez-Uriondo/4405127950570024763
@Private User
@Katherine L Wall
@Private User
@Pauline Veronica Thomas
@Gerene May Jensen Mason
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Managers of William Clifton,
I am contacting you about this profile: Robert Clifton The dates of birth prove this profile to be false or in the wrong place.
Sincerely,
Geoff. Baines
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I agree that there is something wrong about this profile. However, there might be more to it than this profile being false or in the wrong place. I am basing my conclusions on the sources cited on the profile for William Clifton that Geoff brought to our attention.
Looking at the tree, starting with:
@Richard Clifton
we see Richard Clifton (1402-1490) married Alice Boteler of Rawcliffe (1405-1444).
They had a son, James (1428-1490) who married Alice Lancaster.
They had a son, Robert (1407-) who married Margaret Boteler (1400-). This is the 1st problem, as this son and his wife are both older than the father. This couple does, however, show the correct sons:
Cuthbert (1460-1512) who married Alice Lawrence and
William (1453-1537) who married Isabel Thornborough (1458-).
But William is supposed to be the younger son who inherited the title because Cuthbert died without a son.
James (1428-1490) also has two brothers: William (1453-1536) (same dates as his son William) who married Margaret Butler (1434-1465) and Robert (1428-1490) who married the same Margaret Butler. This brother William is the profile you contacted us about.
This William Clifton has three sons named Robert.
1) 1457-1490 married Margaret Butler (1434-1465)
2) 1430- married Margaret Boteler (1435-1465)
3) 1448- no spouse shown
As you can see, two of these sons are shown as being married to the same woman as James' brother William.
Finally, according to the Revisions, two years ago I seem to have changed the name, birth and death dates, and birth place for this profile to their current values from those of James (1428-1490). I do not remember doing this but that was about the time someone was making a lot of erroneous changes and incorrect merges to this area. When I looked at the Revisions I saw that this same person made changes to this profile. I had worked with several other people during that time trying to fix everything, but it is now obvious that we did not find all the changes this person had made.
I am more than willing to do whatever is needed to fix this, but I do not have access to documents pertaining to this time nor am I very familiar with the time period and, therefore, do not feel competent to do any additional research that might be needed. I will gladly make changes to fix things, if a consensus can be reached as to what they should be.
I look forward to hearing from all of you.
Sherry
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Managers of Margaret Butler,
I am contacting you about this profile:@ Margaret Clifton I am not aware of a daughter of Nicholas Butler who married Margaret Kirkby before 1401. The only daughter in the Butler Of Rawcliffe Hall tree I have is a Isabel who married John Townley.
Sincerely,
Geoff. Baines
(also from Geoff about the same profile):
I am contacting you about this profile: Margaret Clifton It was me that added a profile of another Margaret Butler daughter of Nicholas Butler of Rawcliffe Hall I have realized so I have sent in a report to have it deleted.
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Managers of Robert Or Richard Clifton,
I am contacting you about this profile: http://www.geni.com/people/Robert-Or-Richard-Clifton/60000000064512... This profile should not be connected to this tree. Remove this and his descendants and we should then find things are OK. I have posted on geni today the original Clifton Of Clifton Tree I used at the start check it with this profile and you will see.
Sincerely,
Geoff. Baines
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Geoff -
First, while this may help resolve the many problems with this part of the tree, the profile of Robert Clifton and his descendants cannot be deleted without first notifying all the managers of the affected profiles and getting their permission.
Next, I see that you have made several changes to this profile over the last few hours as well as merging it with another Robert Clifton profile. One of the results of this is that the profile of Robert Clifton now has multiple sets of parents. The managers of these profiles would also need to be notified of a request to delete the profile of Robert Clifton and his descendants.
Finally, you have also reported that the profile of Margaret Boteler or Butler
Margaret Clifton
is incorrect and/or misplaced.
These may very well not be the only problems in this area of the Clifton family tree. Therefore, I think the best way to get as much information as possible is to start a public discussion, which I have done.
I will tag the managers of all the immediately affected profiles, so that they will know what you have found and to give their input. I have started the discussion with the messages we have exchanged about this matter. Hopefully, that will make it easier for everyone who has an interest to understand what the problems are.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Sherry
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