Gwenlian Woodville (Stradling) - Serious weirdness here

If the profile is wrong then it should be corrected by the manager Daniel Robert May and locked

Didn't notice it was an MP, curated by Ben M. Angel? Poor Ben - yet another item added to his workload. :-(

Yes he is over worked poor Ben

There were more than one Gwenllian Stradling -- the family is full of mixtures of Anglo-Norman and Welsh names:

According to Wales and the Wars of the Roses, William Stradling's son, William Stradling, had a daughter Gwenllian, who had a child named Margaret by Anthony Woodville, earl Rivers. Interestingly, the page gives no notes to this -- my assumption here is that the knowledge is well enough known to historians that they don't need the reference -- it's like saying "Davy Gam fought at Agincourt" -- you don't need to reference it.

https://books.google.com/books?id=rgpEBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA44&dq=g...

Oh, and here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=UOs6AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT87&dq=g...

a history of the Woodvilles.

Can't get to the note -- the ebook is only about $7.00, though.

The general report is that Gwenllian was Anthony's mistress shortly prior to his first marriage (say c. 1460), and Margaret was acknowledged by being allowed to bear his name.

Margaret was probably born before 1465, since on New Year’s Day of 1465, John Howard, who was at Edward IV’s Christmas court at Eltham with Anthony and his wife, gave “to my lord Scales child 12d.” This *could* refer to a legitimate child who died young, but since there is no other record having to do with any legitimate children, it more likely refers to Margaret.

She was married to Robert Poyntz circa 1479 - an unsourced date of Septermber 12, 1479 has been cited. They had five sons (starting c. 1480 with an Anthony) and four daughters.

She predeceased her husband, who died on November 5, 1520 and left instructions that a black gown of Margaret’s be made into armorial vestments for the chapel (now known as St. Mark’s or the Lord Mayor’s Chapel) he wished to be buried in.

No information is available regarding Gwenllian Stradling after the birth of her daughter Margaret. This could have...rather unpleasant implications.

Any references to Gwenllian as a "wife" probably originate from Victorian bluenoses who would not countenance the thought that a nobleman would engage in hanky-panky. :-D

In any case, she cannot possibly have been a *second* wife, as Lady Scales lived until 1473. A tragically short-lived first wife...? Perhaps, but it would be marrying far beneath him.

No, the histories are very clear. He had one wife, and no child by her. He had one child, by Gwenllian. It's not an obscure family. So I would take it as a given

Actually, milord Rivers *did* take a second wife, in 1480 - one Margaret Fitz-Lewis, daughter of Sir Henry Fitz-Lewis by his (probably first) wife Elizabeth Beaufort (daughter of Edmund Beaufort and Elizabeth Beauchamp, granddaughter of John Beaufort and Margaret Holland, great-granddaughter of John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford).

This appears to be the same Sir Henry Fitz-Lewis who was the second husband of Eleanor White nee Hungerford, and got involved in a Chancery suit on her behalf.

Sir Henry FitzLewis, of Bromford & Horndon
Sir Henry FitzLewis, of Bromford & Horndon

It is apparently NOT true that Eleanor White nee Hungerford had a Tyrrell husband in between John White and Henry Fitz-Lewis - certainly *not* the Sir William Tyrrell who was killed at the Battle of Barnet in 1471 (his wife Eleanor DARCY survived him).

Scratch "Margaret", her name was Elizabeth Fitz-Lewis. I have "Margaret" on the brain for some reason.

Or maybe "Mary" - getting different answers from different sources here. Some hooraw from the discussion groups: http://soc.history.medieval.narkive.com/o4kTGDUi/more-c-p-additions... (post (s) by Douglas Richardson)

Medieval England *was* a rather small world, wasn't it? :-D

Oh right, the FitzRichard. I forgot about her.

Oh, what a family.

surprise surprise!

here is Anthony's illegitimate daughter, previously married to Charles Churchill. Robert Poyntz was her 2nd husband.

Margaret Poyntz

the confusion explained here

https://www.richardiii.org.uk/topic/13802/Margaret%2BWoodville