Adriana Sophia van Reede van Oudtshoorn - Conflicting Information

Maybe there was an incorrect merge on the Adriana Sophia van Reede van Oudtshoorn profile? Or maybe she was married twice. The birth and death does not correspond though.

According to the Geni tree as it now displays there are two sisters, both named Adriana Sophia, one dies 3 years before the other is born.

The younger one is here:
Adriana Sophia Bergh, Baroness 1760- 1830 m. Egbertus Bergh

I think she is the woman yu have in mind but you have started this Discussion from her older sister who lived, married and died in Utrecht. Adriana Sophia, barones van Reede van Oudtshoorn

It looks like we also have a duplicate of Egbert Egbertus Bergh.

So questions:
1) were the two Adriana's actually sisters or are we looking at two generations that have been mixed up?
2) are the two Egberts duplicates?
3) did Egbert marry a third sister (Geesje) before he married Adriana?
4) why do all the sisters have the title "baroness"? Just because their father is a baron does not make them a baroness.

The About of Adriana's father, Baron Pieter van Rheede/Rhede van Oudtshoorn tot Nederhorst SV/PROG, quotes his wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter_van_Reede_van_Oudtshoorn) when it states:

"Ernestina Johanna Geesje, William Ferdinand's daughter and Pieter's granddaughter, married Egbertus Bergh..."

This portion is referenced to this website in Dutch, which i dont have time to read just now:
http://databases.tanap.net/mooc/main_article.cfm?id=MOOC8/37.51

Either the Dutch author is confused or the wikipedia author is confused because clearly the Death notice of Adriana (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSQJ-6Q8Y?i=1801) proves she is the wife of Egbert

Correction, Baroness Geesje Ernestina Johanna Bergh (Van Reede Van Oudtshoor) is a niece of the Adrianas not a third sister.

I think that the two Egbert Bergh profiles are not duplicates, rather i think they are two men with the same name (perhaps related) i think the Ergbert married to Adriana is the important official while the Egbertus married to Geesje is an unknown (at this point).

Thank you for this Alexander. Quite a bit of information. I will however not be able to make all the corrections as I don't manage most of these profiles. I just added some death notices and saw the profiles that looked like duplicates and started this conversation.

I will see if I can find a death notice for the Egbertus married to Geesje.

I am not sure if there are many corrections to make?

If you are editing the profiles could you remove "baroness" from the women that weren't actually baroness'

Any changes that you can't make yourself write them in this discussion and i will do for you. I will try to read the Dutch web page tomorrow but might not have the time until day after

Alex if you find the Dutch difficult you are welcome to ask either of us to help.
Charmaine and Alex you are welcome to shout this way as well for help in fixing the incorrect ones.
I am sure it h as been 1 of 2 things. Wrong merge or a merge not finished thorugh.
Dankie Charmaine.
Judi

Alex you can rely 100% on the TANAP references. They were done by a group of experts on the Cape old deaths.
There just came a new one out now, on a CD that goes further. They are constantly busy updating it. But with all such things costs and hands are few.☺
Judi

Alex Moes a quick translation of the most inportant info on the TANAP Source.
Inventory done on 4/5/1822 of all things beloonging to the decesed William v Rheede van Oudsthoorn who passed away on Sunday evening ca 10 pm on 28/4/1822.
Wifees and children:
1st wife a) The deceased Susanna Margretha van Schoor
One son 1) Pieter Adriaan van Reede van Oudtshoorn
By his 2nd marrige to the deceaced b) by the deceased 2nd wife Geesje Kirsten
Children 2-10
2) Johan Fredrik van Reede van Oudtshoorn
3) William Ferdinand van Reede van Oudtshoorn
4) Lieve Marth:s Izaak van Reede van Oudtshoorn
5) Philippus Hermanus van Reede van Oudtshoorn
6) Jacobus Joh:s Gysbertus van Reede van Oudtshoorn
7) Sophia Cornelia Adriana van Reede van Oudtshoorn married to Rudolph Anthony de Salis
8) Anna Catharina van Reede van Oudtshoorn married to James Dunbar
9) Geesje Ernestina Joh:a van Reede van Oudtshoorn married to Egbertus Bergh son of Olof Bergh.
10) The children of his deceased daughter Johanna Catharina Hendrina van Reede van Oudtshoorn that she had by her husband Johannes Daniel Karnspek verwekt, by names
That is the a-d and all surnamed Karnspek.
a) Geesje Wilhelmina
b) Anna Fredrica
c) Engela Maria en
d) Johannes Daniel Karnspek

I hope it helps a tiny bit.
Judi

Excuse all the typing errors.☺

Thanks Judith, I have no idea what TANAP is but I know now i can trust it :)

I don't think that there is a problem in this tree, i think it is just a big Dutch family using the same names over and over again (very normal) and then just coincidence that two women marry husbands with the same name.

I think what happens is Pieter has 2 daughters named Adriana, a son named Willem and a bunch of other kids. The elder Adriana gets married and dies in child birth, the second Adriana is named for her deceased sister. The second Adriana marries a man named Egbert Bergh. Meanwhile, Willem has a daughter who eventually marries a different man who is named Egbertus Bergh.

In fact if you check the profiles of the husbands you will see that Egbertus Bergh is Egbertus Bergh's nephew.

Alex Moes
TANAP Digital Archives project proposal titled Towards a New Age of Partnership; a Dutch/Asian/South-African programme of cooperation based on a mutual past, was jointly developed in 1997 and 1998 by the National Archives of the Netherlands, known as the Nationaal Archief van Nederland (ARA) and the Research School for Asian, African and Amerindian Studies CNWS of Leiden University.
http://databases.tanap.net/mooc/

http://southafricanfamilyhistory.com/19/

Thank you Alex Moes, now what's left is to fine the other Egbertus Berghs'probate records.

Pleasure Alex Moes that is why the Afrikaans merges goes wrong so often. The naming pattern.
Private User thank you for that.
Here is another one The TEPC - two centuries transcribed 1673-1834 and the group that did it. It also contains manuscripts about peole and places at the Cape of Good Hope.
http://www.tanap.net/content/activities/documents/Orphan_Chamber-Ca...

Dr Helena Liebenberg is bringing out an updated and going further that is sold through the eGGSA.org shop. That came out this month.
Alex please call me Judi.☺

Judi