Pieter Willem Nel, SV1b10 - Birth c1703 or 4?

Started by Sharon Doubell on Wednesday, March 22, 2017
Problem with this page?

Participants:

Profiles Mentioned:

Related Projects:

Showing all 12 posts

The First Fifty Years Project- has his birth as c1703, citing Geslagregisters van ou Kaapse Families II L-R (Cape Town / Amsterdam: A.A. Balkema, 1966), p. 628.http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g7/p7601.htm

But SAG gives his birth date as c. 1704

[Given that his brother, Adriaan Nel was baptized on 23 December 1703 http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g6/p6520.htm - I'm inclined to agree with SAG here.]

I have an argument for Pieter Willem NEL and Willem NEL to be the same person.
I have traced the muster/tax rolls from 1689 when his parents Willem NEL and Jannetjie le Bat first appears and concluded the following from the number of minor sons listed with them:

1689 - 1691: 1 son (Jean NEL)

1692: 2 sons ((Jean NEL & Esaias NEL)

1693 - 1700: 3 sons ((Jean NEL, Esaias NEL & Willem NEL)

1701 - 1702: 4 sons ((Jean NEL, Esaias NEL, Willem NEL & Elias NEL)

1703 - 1705: 5 sons ((Jean NEL, Esaias NEL, Willem NEL, Elias NEL & Adriaan NEL)

1706: 4 sons ((Esaias NEL, Willem NEL, Elias NEL & Adriaan NEL) with Jean NEL listed separately as major

1707: 5 sons ((Jean NEL, Esaias NEL, Willem NEL, Elias NEL & Adriaan NEL)

1708 - 1709: 3 sons ((Willem NEL, Elias NEL & Adriaan NEL) with Jean NEL & Esaias NEL listed separately as majors

1710: 5 sons ((Jean NEL, Esaias NEL, Willem NEL, Elias NEL & Adriaan NEL)

1711 - 1719: 2 sons ((Elias NEL & Adriaan NEL) with Jean NEL, Esaias NEL & the third son listed separately as majors

NOTE:

1. There is no 6th son added after 1703 that would indicate the birth of Pieter Willem NEL

2. From 1711 their third son appears as major in line with being born in 1693 and turning 18 in 1711.

3. This son is interchangeably listed (mostly alongside his parents and brother Esaias) as:

1711: Willem Pieter NEL

1712: Pieter Willemsz NEL

1714: Willem Pieters NEL

1716 - 1717: Willem NEL de jonge

1718: Pieter Willemsz NEL

1719, 1721: Willem NEL de jonge

1723: Pieter Willemsz: NEL

4. These two names never appear separately on the same rolls.

5. Guillaume and Jannetjie's will of 1734 names a Willem, but no Pieter Willemsz:.

My conclusion is that they are one and the same person, born about 1693.

Gerhard Paul Swart , I think you've made a good argument, and I'm inclined to go with it - unless other managers want to debate it, in the next week. Call me back here next weekend if that doesn't happen, and I'll merge them.

Notes on the profile:

Only exists in South African Genealogies !!
No other valid sources.

Baptism:

Willem Nel was baptized in 1696 de Caep de Goede Hoop. GISA, South African Genealogies 6 N, GISA SA Genealogies (Stellenbosch, South Africa: Genealogical Institute of South Africa, 2000), p.126.

See http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g5/p5236.htm

Willem Nel Death 18 December 1762

Could this be him 🤔 - Phillipp Weyers September 2024

www.geni.com/media/proxy?media_id=6000000209038953828&size=large

Notes on Pieter Willem Nel profile:

Birth

The First Fifty Years Project- born c. 1703 - Geslagregisters van ou Kaapse Families II L-R (Cape Town / Amsterdam: A.A. Balkema, 1966), p. 628.

SAG give birth date as c. 1704 [Given that his brother, Adriaan Nel was baptized on 23 December 1703 http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g6/p6520.htm - I'm inclined to agree with SAG here... Sharon 2017]

If he was same person as sibling Willem Nel why did always use name Pieter ? - Phillipp Weyers 2024 .

Are names of children mentioned on Muster Rolls or just male or female 🤔 ?
Perhaps share muster rolls for everyone to see ?

Marriage

Nel - Van Deventer Marriage Record (Stellenbosch)

He married Altijn Gerritsz van Deventer, daughter of Gerrit Jansz van Deventer and Ariaantje Jacobs, on 8 April 1725 de Caep de Goede Hoop - Geslagregisters van ou Kaapse Families II L-R, p. 629.

Children

  • b10 [[Pieter Willem Nel Pieter Willem Nel] Pieter Willem Néel] b. c 1704 x 8 April 1725 [[Altijn "Aletta" Gerritsz Nel Altijn "Aletta" Gerritsz Nel] Altijn "Aletta" Gerritsz van Deventer] b. 27 Jun 1700 BIRTH SOURCES NEEDED

Will 1762

Drawn up 29 October 1760
Filed 7 February 1762 -- possible he died before 7 February 1762
www.geni.com/media/proxy?media_id=6000000209039240822&size=large

Gerhard Paul Swart the question for you on the About, reads:
Are names of children mentioned on Muster Rolls or just male or female 🤔 ?
Perhaps share muster rolls for everyone to see ?

Private User you Curate on the second, Willem Nel profile

I can't offer much here! Please take over curating where necessary Sharon

Unfortunately only the adult names are listed on the muster rolls with the number of sons and daughters.

As an example, here is a link t the 1718 roll where he appears as Pieter Willemsz:
https://www.nationaalarchief.nl/onderzoeken/archief/1.04.02/invnr/4...

An index to the rolls can be found here:
https://eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/record-transcripts/muster-rol...

It is interesting that Jan NEL appears on his own in 1704 whilst Guillaume and Jannetjie are still listed with 5 sons I missed it.

But then in 1705 he is not listed separately and they still have 5 sons and in 1706 he is listed separately and they only have 4 sons.
He is also not listed separately in 1707 & 1710.
The picture

1704 seems to be an anomaly. Perhaps he was double counted as labourer elsewhere and as minor with his parents?

If a sixth son was born in this year he does not appear again afterwards so he must have died young?

Showing all 12 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion