mtDNA U2c1

Hi Charlette, same mtDNA haplogroup or same HVR1, HVR2 and Coding Region?

Hi Charlette - that is very interesting. Arriaantje Abrahamse Jacobs appears to have a clearly documented origin in the Netherlands. If a descendant has tested U2c1 ? - which is specific to India - then there is most likely either a mistake in her genealogy or a biological discontinuity. If she is a match of yours please encourage her to join Geni & upload her results.

Ariaantje Jacobs, SM/Prog

Hi Charlette, there is currently a discussion ongoing regarding the results you mention. The discussion is between the admins of the Cape Dutch Founding Families project at FTDNA. https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/cape-dutch/about

If there is any additional information or interest regarding further DNA testing, please contact the project administrator(s).

Warm regards,
Alex

Alex, that discussion isn't viewable unless you've tested - which leaves those of us who had our parents tested rather than ourselves unable to read it. What are they saying?

Hi Drummond Full sequence

Ariaantje Abrahamse Jacobs, SM/PROG is my 7th great grandmother and I carry the South African mutation R59W for Variegate Porphyria -
My mtDNA results Haplogroup U2c1.

That's very useful info, Private User. Thank you.
Elizabeth Richarde, SM/PROG appears to be your mtDNA granny on geni. Am I correct?

Thank-you Cecilia. We currently have two possible mtDNA haplogroups to this SM and are in the process of confirming the correct one.

Currently, besides Cecilia's U2c1 test result, there are two more individuals that are maternal line descendants of Ariaantjie Jacobsz VAN DEVENTER nee ABRAHAMSE 1670 that have tested positive for mtDNA H48.

There are two other individuals with the same mtDNA haplogroup (mtDNA H48) however their documented genealogy is yet to be confirmed.

There is a fifth individual from a different branch leading to this SM who is a good test candidate but is currently unable to because of financial constraints.

Background:

Gerrit Janse van Deventer van Veldcamp. Burger Stellenbosch. getroud: 29 Oct 1688 Ariaantje Jacobs, weesmeisie, van Rotterdam.

The South African variegate porphyria PPOX R59W could be traced back to Gerrit Jansz van Deventer, born in Veldkamp in the Netherlands, and to his wife Ariaantje Jacobs, who was born in Rotterdam . Her father died when she was 5 months and her mother, when she was eight. Admitted to the orphanage 'Gereformeerd Burgersweeshuis' in Rotterdam, in 1687, the director minister Sewentien decided to send eight of his female orphans (including Ariaantje and her half-sister Willemijntje) to the Cape to become wives of the Dutch settlers. She married Gerrit Jansz van Deventer, and he and his wife had eight children, of whom four had porphyria. The link with this founder family was identified first by Geoffrey Dean, a British physician who settled in South Africa in 1947. He could determine whether Ariaantje or her husband, Gerrit Jansz, carried the mutation. Based on the fact that Hendrik, the son of the half-sister, Willemijntje, also had porphyria the mutation, the carrier was assumed to be Ariaantje.

With some reservation I say the following. There are 5 profiles that suggest a direct maternal lineage from Catharina van Malabar. One of the five was tested and found to be mtDNA U2c1.

Cecilia's maternal lineage needs to be confirmed. She does however have Ariaantje as a direct descendant (at least 2x), in her non-mtDNA lineage. Her mtDNA genealogy needs confirmation.

I have worked out the maternal line of one of our FTDNA Cape Dutch project contributors recently and it runs to U2c (tested by another company). There are differences in her HVR2 markers compared to the U2c1 markers identified by FTDNA. I could be wrong but personally I am not convinced yet that Arriaantje's mother Cathryn is the same person as Catharina van Malabar.

I have messaged Beth Hawkins to ask if she would please share her HVR2 markers with me. I would like to compare them with those of the Arriaantje van Cathryn descendant whose line I have reseached. If she too contains the same differences it will strengthen my belief that we have 2 lineages here - U2c and U2c1. Beth I will really appreciate your input on this! ☺

Beth hasn't been on geni for a year, I'm afraid. She tested as U2c1, as did Fanie van Heerden & Shirley Bihl Paladin

See SA mtDNA project: https://www.geni.com/projects/South-African-mtDNA-Female-Progenitor...
*Catharina van Malabar SM/PROG Confirmed Haplogroup U2c1
mtDNA Descendants on Geni:

*Arriantjie Gabrielsz Van Cathrijn [U2c1]
Fanie van Heerden [confirmed by genetic test as U2c1]
Beth Hawkins [confirmed by genetic test as U2c1]
*Catharina Cornelisz [U2c1]
Shirley Bihl Paladin [confirmed by genetic test as U2c1]

Discussions
https://www.geni.com/discussions/152391?msg=1144653&page=2
http://www.geni.com/discussions/142201?msg=997399
http://www.geni.com/discussions/152391?msg=1063888
https://www.geni.com/discussions/157268

Ceciia doesn't appear to be an mtDNA descendant of of Catharina or Ariaantje at all?

cf https://www.geni.com/discussions/152391?msg=1152090

Thanks Sharon. ☺

Have you got a copy of her results and it is definitely U2C1 not just U2c? On 22/6 you posted at https://www.geni.com/discussions/157268 that it was U2c. I just want to be really sure these two lineages are the same since we have someone descended from Arriaantje van Cathryn who has a haplogroup U2c allocated and there are differences in her HVR2 region compared to our U2c1 contributors. There may well be an explanation, I really would just like to be sure.

Which company did Beth test through?

If you have a copy of her results, are you able to privately share her HVR 2 markers with me, or look at the HVR markers on the FTDNA project at https://www.familytreedna.com/public/CapeDutch?iframe=mtresults assigned to the U2c1 contributors and confirm whether Beth's HVR markers are identical or not?

Sorry - typo - I meant Beth's HVR2 markers. (last sentence)

Em, I haven't got it - and I wish I did have, because I've tried to get hold of her on Geni too, to no avail :-(. It's very likely, though, that I'd just forgotten the end off her Haplogroup in that Discussion. That would be perfectly typical of my lack of memory for details :-(

However, what I was trying to show you above is that Jan Stephanus van Heerden, y R-S16265 mt U2c1 corroborates Beth's result.

(I'm really glad to have your fantastic sleuthing skills to help us here. This seems to me to be about to become a grand old genealogy detective puzzle - so keep us posted on what you're thinking. Between us all - and a couple more DNA tests - perhaps we'll solve it:-))

Jan Stephanus van Heerden, (Fanie) y R-FGC39522 mt U2c1

On the porphyria point, Alex - variegate porphyria would have to be X linked for it to be significant to a Discussion about mtDNA grandparents. Is it?

A quick internet search suggests it's inherited autosomally.

Hi Sharon,

This is what puzzles me somewhat :

HVR2 U2c contributor: - National Health Laboratory/WITS: 73A-G, 150C-T, 152T-C en 263A-G (Arriaantje van Catryn)
HVR2 U2C1 contributors - FTDNA: C146T, C150T, C195T, A247G, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C (Catharina van Malabar)

Jan Stephanus van Heerden, does your HVR2 markers match either of the above?

Hmmm - I see.

My HVR2 markers:
HVR2 DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS
C146T C150T C195T A247G 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C

Thanks Fanie - and that's for Arriantjie.

Yes for Arriantjie

Thanks sooo much for answering!!

I just want to claify this: You tested through FTDNA and were assigned the same HVR markers as listed for Arriaantje above [ie 73A-G, 150C-T, 152T-C en 263A-G, and not C146T, C150T, C195T, A247G, 522.1A, 522.2C, 315.1C], and were assigned U2c1?

Yes I tested through FTDNA and was assigned U2c1. My HVR2 results are the same as the results you quoted.

Thanks Jan for the detail - I am a bit stumped by the differences in HVR2 markers, a bit of a challenge for the Cape Dutch DNA project administrators to try and resolve.

Hi Em, I think Jan means his markers match the one's quoted above (as per HVR2 U2c1) i.e. not those from the NHL/WITS.

Yes, I also interpreted the answers that way:

Jan Stephanus van Heerden: C146T C150T C195T A247G 315.1C 522.1A 522.2C
Other FTDNA U2c1 contribtrs: C146T, C150T, C195T, A247G, 315.1C 522.1A, 522.2C
WITS Lab U2c contibutor: 73A-G, 150C-T, 152T-C 263A-G