Hans Christoffel Snyman (Schneider), SV/PROG - Hans Jurien Sneijman from Hanover (soldier 1705) (resigned 1713)

There is another Snijman in the VOC archives. Geremias Snijman, in the service of the Dutch East India Company in 1686. He was repatriated in 1692. Disciplined (gestraft) at the Cape of Good Hope and repatriated.

The record may be viewed in the sources section on Hans Christoffel's profile.

Geremias Snijman (uit Dantsig) joins as soldier with chamber Amsterdam. Thursday, March 13th, 1687 Arrival of the ship Salland at the Cape of Good Hope. Monday, March 31st, 1687 Departure of the ship Salland from the Cape of Good Hope. Monday, May 26th, 1692 Arrival of the ship Moerkapel at the Cape of Good Hope.
Wednesday, October 15th, 1692
Resignation Geremias Snijman (Moerkapel)
Reason: repatriated
Remarks: Gestraft (disciplined)

Christoffel Snijman

Afternoon... we kinda have an(other) issue: these two profiles...

Hans Christoffel Snijman, SV/PROG

and

Johann Heinrich Snyders, SV/PROG

are listed as brothers but born 80 years apart? :)

Hello Jan. The Snyman/Snyders link is why I posted this thread.

The VOC records I posted on Hans Christoffel's profile suggest that Snyders is a different last name.

I have disconnected Hans Christoffel from Friedrich Snijder *1606.

The info on this profile needs to be cleaned and double-checked.

Hans Christoffel Snijder / Schneider, SV/PROG MP
Gender: Male
Birth: 1645
Heidelberg, Karlsruhe, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany
Death: 1683 (38)
Robben Island, South Africa

Firstly, we need to clarify the name as it stands in the records.
Secondly, we need a reference for the date and place of birth.
Third, we need to confirm the date of death and that it occurred on Robben island.

Are you happy with Christoffel Snijman?

Hi Sharon, I added the Christoffel Snyman link to this discussion to include his managers in this discussion.

I am happy with Christoffel :-)

Not happy with Hans Christoph/Chistoffel Snijder/Schneider.

Okay great. I Curate the first, not the second :-)

Okay, to summarize. The first Snyman in SA has traditionally been reported to be Christoffel Snyman. These VOC records change that by introducing 2 new possibilities.

The second discovery is the Snyman name recorded as being from Hanover or Dantsig in Europe. This changes the traditional understanding until now that Christoffel was the first to carry the name Snijman/Snyman as a corrupted version of Snijder/Schneider.

Then there is Christoffel's father's identity. Is there conclusive evidence that confirms his name as Hans Christoffel?

You need to tag which profile is which if you want the Summary to make sense (at least to me :-))

Good evening, I have tagged both profiles, Christoffel Snyman and his purported biological father, Hans Christoffel Schneider. I have included all four links to the VOC records described below.

The first Snyman is reported to have been Christoffel Snijman (*c.1669 ffy project)

Hans Christoffel Snijman, SV/PROG is noted by Mansell Upham to have been named Hans Christoffel Schneider and purported to have been the father of the Christoffel Snyman.

The VOC archives provide the following soldiers' names as having sailed to the Cape of Good Hope. Moreover, the VOC records state that both these men carried the last name Snijman/Sneijman and originated in Europe.

Geremias Snijman arrived at the Cape of Good Hope in 1687.
https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000064084449825&

Geremias Snijman was repatriated to Europe following disciplinary action 1692.
https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000064095931822&

Hans Jurien Sneijman arrived at the Cape of Good Hope in 1706.
https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000064060874830&

Hans Jurriaan Snijman arrived at the Cape of Good Hope in 1710.
https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000064079026825&

So your're not doubting that Hans Christoffel Snijman, SV/PROG was Christoffel Snijman (also recorded as Christoffel Snijman van de Caep)'s father?
Or are you? I seem to be being particularly dense on this subject, I'm sorry.

I'm missing the point about the two - I see three? (arrived 1687, arrived 1706, arrived 1710) Snijmans who also arrived at the Cape. Are you saying that one of them must be the correct name for Hans Christoffel Snijman, SV/PROG who supposedly? dies on Robben Island;

or are you saying that one of them must be Christoffel Snijman's father rater than Hans Christoffel Snijman, SV/PROG?

I am doubting the whole notion that Schneider somehow became Snyman. Therefore, Hans Christoffel Schneider appears to be a very dubious father for Christoffel Snyman.

Who the real father was is the question. There are two options here but there may be more that we don't know of yet.

Well the second and third options can't have been here to father Christoffel Snijman.

What was the decision on Christoffel Snijman and Hans Christoffel Snijman, SV/PROG?

Did we decide tht the one was the father, and therefore the real SV?

We need to discuss the possibility that Christoffel Snyman's father may have been the following:

Geremias Snijman, in the service of the Dutch East India Company in 1686, was repatriated and disciplined (gestraft) at the Cape of Good in 1692.

Geremias Snijman (uit Dantsig) joins as soldier with chamber Amsterdam.

Thursday, March 13th, 1687 Arrival of the ship Salland at the Cape of Good Hope.

Monday, March 31st, 1687 Departure of the ship Salland from the Cape of Good Hope.

Monday, May 26th, 1692 Arrival of the ship Moerkapel at the Cape of Good Hope.

Wednesday, October 15th, 1692
Resignation Geremias Snijman (Moerkapel)
Reason: repatriated
Remarks: Gestraft (disciplined)

What about the direct naming of him here?

Mansell Upham, "In Hevigen Woede . . .", Regular nocturnal activity on the part of a distracted sentry inside the living quarters of the Fort's washerwoman - the Company slave familiarly known to all as Groote Catrijn - resulted in the conviction on 30 July 1667 of Hans Christoffel Snijman

and the fact that Christoffel Snijman is born before 9 Mar 1669?

I have looked at the source documents and the only documentation we have linking Christoffel to Catrijn is the boedel doc. belonging to Antonij v. Bengal that incorrectly gives Christoffel as the son of Antonij v. Bengal.

Mansell Upham's article does not quote nor does it reference primary sources. Why not?

The original proof for given as evidence for Christoffel Snijman's birthdate is a reference to a child (seun/boy) baptised by Catrijn. That is all. There is no clarity that the Catrijn or the Christoffel mentioned is in fact Groote Catrijn or Christoffel Snijman. Mansell Upham himself admitted in an open discussion that he used inference not actual historical documentation.

We have no primary source that gives the soldier Hans Christoffel Snijder as Snijman. This has been added by Mansell Upham with a note that the original source documentation states Snijder/Schneider. I have only seen Snijder and not Schneider or Snijman.

If Hans Christoffel Snijder is the father then Christoffel could not have been born in the year 1669 as his father was banished to Robben Island on 30th July 1667.

Ahhh - now I understand. And I couldn't even find that article by Mansell on the FFYP - maybe he's taken it down for that reason.

Re: I have looked at the source documents and the only documentation we have linking Christoffel to Catrijn is the boedel doc. belonging to Antonij v. Bengal that incorrectly gives Christoffel as the son of Antonij v. Bengal.

That's a strong link, though. Does it call him Snijman or v Bengal?

Hi all,

There has been quite good reasearch on the Snymans done by Jaco Strauss. I will try and forward this to him or Drummond as well if that is OK.

Christoffel Snijman
under more is a very good explanation on him.

O my. There is so many possiblities and said under all profiles. As it is my gggf's I will be happy with what the majorit of the managers decide.☺

Sharon, it calls him Christoffel Snijman. I checked and double-checked.

I think we may have been misled by the washerwoman/soldier story into assuming automatic ancestry.

There is a very real possibility that Christoffel was orphaned and placed in the care of Groote Catrijn. Snijder is a different name.

The baptism on 9 March 1669 states:

de]n 9 Maert een soontje van groote Catrijn wiert genaemt Christoffel tot getuyge stont Angila, transcribed by Richard Ball

The use of the word "soontje van" suggests that Christoffel belonged to groote Catrijn. It is therefore not certain whether the relationship was understood by the scribe.

There is therefore just as much reason to infer an adoptive relationship as there is a biological one.

At no point in Christoffel Snijman's life did he acknowledge who his parents were. All we know for sure is that he was the heir to Antonij v. Bengal and was a member of the upper class. This is very strange!

Mansell Upham states that Christoffel was given his father's name. But this is a stretch... Hans Christoffel Snijder > Christoffel Snijman

If we focus on what we have in terms of genealogy. Christoffel is confirmed the (adoptive) son of Antonij. Then through inference we can comfortably say that Groote Catrijn was his legal guardian too as a result of her marriage to Antonij.

Therefore, if we apply strict principles to Christoffel's genealogy. We have adoptive parents with a question mark whether Groote Catrijn may have been his biological mother or not.

The rest is Mansell Upham's imagination... until proven or confirmed!