Sir Roger Corbet, Kt. - The Corbet Mess and the Visitations of Shropshire

Thank you. Other than knowing that there are few sources for this period, I have little knowledge of the reliability of the Visitations.

Do you want to make the required edits / changes and add your sources and comments to the Overview?

https://archive.org/stream/familyofcorbetit02corb/familyofcorbetit0...

I assume you think this is a decent, if not primary, source?

I've gotten rid of several of the daughters who were attached to Roger, but were actually his sisters. Two remain, Alice and Margaret, who I can't place right now.

What about the two Thomases? I need to take a break and look again.

Regarding "Family of Corbet", where original records area cited it is of considerable value, but as soon as she inserts her personal interpretations she loses the plot.

She screws up TOTALLY on Robert Corbet, because she swallows the Visitations whole and uncritically - whereas we now know they were *seriously wrong* at that point.

I suspect the "Corbins" belong to a different family altogether and were mis-WAGged onto the CorbET tree.

The Burleys seem to be all messed up too, with multiple versions of "Alice Burley (Grey)" up and down the tree.

The John Burley who was an MP and the guardian of the young Corbet brothers (and probably the father of Robert Corbet's, and later Sir William Mallory's, wife Margaret) seems to have been a social climber from the lower squirearchy. His origins aren't clear - his mother may have been a Burnell, since he was a "nephew" of John Burnell of Westbury (along with a William Spenser, from which it can be inferred that Burnell was childless). He was NOT directly related to the influential Burleys temp. Richard II, but may have been a collateral relative at some remove. (The Burnell connection was a bit closer, as he was in a position to do favors for Sir Hugh Burnell, KG, 2nd Lord Burnell.)

Exactly how John Burnell of Westbury fits into this picture isn't clear either, since the Burnells had recently gone through a daughter-out (Baron Hugh and his father were technically Haudlos who had taken the Burnell surname from the lands they inherited). But there were some cadet Burnells unaccounted-for, and that's not even counting any descendants of Robert Burnell, Bishop of Bath and Wells, who may have slipped under the radar. (Burnell, quite against the rules, kept a mistress on the down-low and passed off their children as "nieces" and "nephews". This was actually well-known enough in his own time to deny him the Archbishopric of Canterbury.)

There are so many curators in this mess, it would be preferable if those who were best with these sources worked on this mess with expert users like you.

Jason Scott Wills

Erica Howton

Private User

I am a Corbet descendant through the Stowes, which is why I curated one or two of them, but I'm definitely no expert in this period of British history.

It's a particularly difficult one, what with all the political goings- on (wrapping up the Hundred Years' War with France, coping with a usurpation at home, then the Glendower rebellion, and then the Wars of the Roses). And just when you need the Visitations most, the Shropshire files turn out to be worse than useless.

I had to *try* to sort out the Benthalls and Burnells from land records and other legal documents, and I'm not sure I got them all correctly named and placed. Eyton's "Antiquities of Shropshire" was a considerable help in tracking down primary documentation, and sometimes filled in gaps with reasonable deductions (no wild guesses for him!).

Yes Eyton is cited a lot. I have a big gap in my knowledge when it comes to that period of history, which I should address.

I've got an iron in this fire, too, because the Corbets married into some of the Welsh lines, and show up in Bartrum's genealogies.

Now the caveat here is that the Welsh genealogies are not as solid in the English lines. They know when the Welsh married English, but they sometimes aren't clear on the parentage of the English person.

So I tend to assume that the English sources get the English right, and the Welsh sources get the Welsh right.

This seems reasonable.

Except when they *don't* get it right, which is entirely too often in the case of the Shropshire Visitations. That's when we're forced back onto (scanty) primary records.

I wonder how much trouble the History of Parliament people are having in filling that Fifteenth-Century Pothole (1422-1504). Lots, would be my guess.

Spinning off Thomas Corbet, of Leigh, Sheriff of Shropshire

Might be able to find something through the de Leigh's of Lee

A tree on the Wikipedia page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corbet_family#Feudal_barons_of_Caus_a...

Compiled from Visitations and the Family Book cited above

Stirnet's compilation described mentioned here

https://www.geni.com/discussions/69340?msg=570512

Tree image from the book

https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/c/c7/Corbet-72.jpg

Beatrice (no last name given) mother of Thomas who married Jane Borely.

If this tree is acceptable it looks like her husband was a different Roger Corbet.

Oh goodness, in fixing the Corbets, I stumbled into the Charltons and Hordes (Hoord, Hord, Hoard) and they were also all messed up. Some from Dec 29, 2010 automated merges. Generations off.

Alice Hord

William Hoard, Alice Ann Charlton

Luckily several curators were involved and I was able to mostly sort out the issues, although there are some suspicious offspring and parents in the earliest generations.

I was able to get rid of another extra daughter of Sir Roger Corbet, Kt., Sheriff of Shropshire

"Thomas Corbet, of Leigh" is a mess, and looks as though he was at some point mash-merged with Thomas Corbet of Lye and possibly others.

Thomas Corbet, of Lee
Thomas Corbet, of Leigh, Sheriff of Shropshire

My impression is that the Staffordshire Corbets had already established themselves as a separate branch. In any case, Thomas of Lee/Leigh/Lye can't be a son of Sir Roger and Margaret Erdington, because there are *no* records of him in that connection whatsoever and because he inherited *nothing* from that quarter.

Per History of Parliament Online this is indeed the case:

CORBET, Sir Robert (c.1354-1417), of Hadley, Salop, Berkhampstead, Herts. and Assington, Suff. http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/co...

b.c.1354, s. and h. of Sir Robert Corbet (c.1330-1404) of Kings Bromley, Staffs. and Hadley, by his 1st w. m. (1) c.1364, Alice, da. and h. of Sir John Langton of Hoddesdon, Herts. ?1da.; (2) by June 1385, Joan, da. of Agnes, da. and coh. of Ralph Broc of ‘Maudeleyns’, in Northchurch, Herts., wid. of Sir Peter Scudamore of Upton Scudamore, Wilts., 1da.; (3) aft. 1415, Joan (d. Oct. 1418), da. of Sir John Thornbury*, wid. of William Peyto of Chesterton, Warws. and of John Knightley* of Gnosall, Staffs. Kntd. by July 1372.

Although Corbet’s father, Sir Robert senior, was the youngest of Sir Roger Corbet of Hadley’s three sons, he had nevertheless inherited the family’s widespread estates, which included Hadley and Hatton in Shropshire, Ebrington and Farmcote in Gloucestershire, Kings Bromley in Staffordshire, Standlake in Oxfordshire, Denchworth and Tubney in Berkshire and Assington in Suffolk.1 Most of these properties did not pass to the MP until his father’s death in 1404, at the late age of 74 or more, although in his father’s lifetime he and his first wife had taken possession of Kings Bromley (by a settlement made in 1372) and he had also obtained an interest in the estate at Hadley. The whole inheritance, excluding the dower portion held by his stepmother, had an estimated annual value at Sir Robert junior’s death of £74.2

(end direct quotes) All the marrying around got him only one, possibly two daughters (depending on whether Agnes, the elder, was his or was brought into the marriage by his first wife), and a collateral Staffordshire Corbet descendant was his ultimate heir (either not in Parliament, or Potholed).

Was there more than one Nest?

Nest Corbet (née de Valle)

I uploaded the chart to tag to profiles

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000066472707821&

Going back to finish fixing Thomas of Lye.

History of Parliament is incorrect either in assigning the senior Sir Robert *only* three sons, or in specifying Sir Robert the MP as the "youngest" - for there was a younger half-brother, Sir Guy Corbet, whose son (yet another Robert!!!) eventually inherited from the MP.

"Nest" was a rather popular female name in Wales, and occasionally just outside it. But without a "verch" and a family line, it's hard to say where she properly belongs.

I will see if I can find her in Bartrum. Might have time tomorrow.

And now in sorting the questionable last daughter of Sir Roger Corbet, Kt, I ran into the Corfhull / de Corve family, that was in okay shape I guess, but I doubt that the Margaret who married Richard Corfeld was the daughter of Sir Roger. I left her since the Corfeld researcher made that claim and his other information was from primary sources.

Thanks Maven for the answer on Thomas. I knew I still had that to review.

Margaret Corfield

Erica, you're the curator for him: Thomas Corbet, of Lee

I'll leave you to him. He is not the son of Sir Roger and Margaret because the geography doesn't work to start with. See Maven's comment above.

Some information on Nest, accuracy unknown: http://cybergata.com/roots/11110.htm

Nesta de Vale

Marriage: Sir Roger Corbet Knight 1494

* Noted events in her life were:

• Background Information. 1325

From Old Pembroke Families in the Ancient County Palatine of Pembroke:

p. 72, "Nesta, wife of Roger Corbet, and one of the co-heiresses of Robert de Vale, of lands at Castell Loyth (Wolf's Castle) and Rinaston. [Baronia, p. 73]

pp. 93-94, Sir Robert (de Vale) was married twice, first to Avelina de Wideworth, [Arch. Camb., II, v.39] and then to Margaret, who survived him. He left four daughters, and his estate was divided into four portions, as appears from the charter in 1303 of Geoffrey Hascard as to a rent of Johnston, which had been granted to him by David de la Roche, which calls upon the heirs of Robert de Vale to warrent. [Owen's Pembrokeshire, i, 184] The heirs were: Gilbert de la Roche (of Llangum), the husband of one of the daughters and father to David; John Wogan, who married Margaret, daughter of Sir Robert (one source says she was the daughter of Roger Corbet and Nesta de Vale); Thomas de Rosshall, who had married Nesta, the widow of Roger Corbet; Llywelyn ap Owen, who married Elen de Vale; and John de Sutton, who was a husband or son of another daughter. [Close Rolls, 27 Edw.I, m.20]

Roger Corbet was of Chaddesley in Worcestershire; his widow, Nesta, married Thomas of Rosshall, [Eyton Shropshire, x. p 90] in Shropshire, who had merely a life interest, as we find the Cobets holding de Vale property in the country for some generations.

Nesta married Sir Roger Corbet Knight, son of William Corbet and Ada.1494 (Sir Roger Corbet Knight was born in Chaddesley Corbet, Worcestershire, England and died before 7 Jun 1290 in Chaddesley Corbet, Worcestershire, England.)

Yeah, the real Thomas Corbet was born Stanford, Shropshire on Mar 18 1372 and was the father of my ancestor, Jane Baker.

I'm not sure how far back the bad merge goes.