Jan Broersen Decker - questionable ancestry

Catherina E Gerritsen, Catherina Elizabeth Decker (alleged grandmother of Lt. Jan), whoever she might be is apparently the daughter of Hans Pieter Gerritsen, 12ggf (middle name Peter) who died in Amsterdam, South Holland.

Records may be hard to find, especially as Amsterdam is in North Holland not South.

This relationship does not make much sense as Cathy _Gerrits(zen)_ should be the daughter of a father named Gerrit.
Adding to the confusion is that her father "Hans Peter Gerritsen" (if that was his name) should by the same logic also be the son of man named Gerrit. He almost is: [[Gerritsen]]

Except that [[Gerritsen]] is not a given name so lord alone knows what people are thinking when they make these profiles!

According to FamilySearch the next generation (I use the term loosely) is actually named Adrianus Gerrit Dirk Gerritsen but the problem with trusting online trees is that when u take 2 minutes to scroll down the FamilySearch page to check the sources you find rapidly that Adrianus Gerrit Dirk Gerritsen got married and had children in Amsterdam in the late 1880s... i'll say it again for affect, 1880s!!

So phooy to Adrianus Gerrit Dirk Gerritsen being the gf/ggf of a Danish/German immigrant to 17

...th century New York

A quick mention too for Jan Gerritse Decker who's son Gerrit married Jan Broersen Decker's daughter, Margriet Janz Decker.

One Decker family legend is that JBD took the last name Decker _after_ this marriage to cement the connection to JGD's family tho no evidence exists for the theory.

Geni currently shows JBD and JGDas first cousins even though their fathers were born just a year apart in completely different countries. Also don't forget that JBD's father is actually him, otherwise JBD would actually have been JJD not JBD.

http://www.deckerjourney.com/JanGerretsen/JanGerretsen.html

This is what I have Hendrick was married to Malinda Broersen. Parents of Broersen Hendrick who married Catherina Gerritsen. They were the parents of Jan Broer who married Jeltje Jacobs who were the parents of Jan Broersen Decker. The Decker name being a family name that appears much earlier. Jan Broersen Decker married Swedish born sisters Willemtje and Heyltje Jacobs. He comes to this country without Decker added to the name but adopts this older family name after the English take-over of the colony, as does Jan Broersen Gerritsen a friend who arrived in the country with him just to add to the confusion.

Hi Terry Decker,
Thanks for your input, can you tell us where you have this information from?

As far as I know the friend you refer to as Jan Broersen Gerritsen was actually Jan Gerritsen Decker, I have never seen him called JBG and it would make no sense as a Dutch name. Any profile with double patronymics is a big red flag to me :)

Another huge red flag for me in the Dutch tree is profiles with a Patronymic first name, ie Broersen Hendrick. The most obvious solution is that Broersen Hendrick was actually named Hendrick Broersen and your source has invented a whole generation. Or maybe a whole person, in any case it's a huge red flag. The data base of DRC records that i mostly work from has over 145,000 entries but not even once does the name Broersen appear as a first name.

The only time Broersen appears in records it is used by JBD as a patronym, and as i said above if his patronym is Broersen then it makes absolutely no sense that his father would be named Jan Decker, if that was the case his name would either be Jan Jans Broer or Jan Jans Decker.

>Jan Broersen Decker married Swedish born sisters Willemtje Jacobs and Heyltje Jacobs.

Sadly your source is very mistaken.

The idea that the two wives of Jan were sisters seems to rely entirely on the fact both had the patronym Jacobs, this is like picking two random American women with the surname Jones and saying they must be sisters.

The idea that the "sisters" are from Sweden is equally wrong. It was actually Willemtje's previous husband that was Swedish:

1668 11 May; Jan Cornelissen, of Gottenborgh, Sweden, jm; Willemtie Jacobs, wid Albert Gerritsen [Kingston DRC Marriages 1660-1809]

That I am aware of there is no surviving record of Willemtie Jacobs earlier marriage to Albert Gerritsen, so where she was born will remain a mystery.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Broersen-30#Biography provides a bio and http://www.hopefarm.com/decker.htm supports the name change.
http://waltervanness.com/Mayflower-o/p8.htm#i217 Jan and Gerritsen can be found here. hope it helps

I am still of the opinion that Jan Decker and Jan Broersen Decker are duplicates rather than father and son.

Their ancestry (full of red flags and oddities) stretches back to Anton Decker

Rather than merging the two Jan profiles and trying to make some sense of that I have decided to just cut the parents of Jan Decker which will result in everything that is currently above him just floating off into space. I think this is the best course of action because if I am wrong reverting this cut will be very simple.

Erica Howton
Private User
Private User
Eldon Lester Clark

What about Jan Broersen Decker & Jan Decker being different people entirely ?

sounds good to me...

(I was replying to Alex)

Erica, anything is possible.
There are two commonly identified Jan Deckers in the first generation of NA, Jan Broersen and Jan Gerritsen.
Both these two men are well documented in the colony so there is no mistaking them, but a third Jan could have crept into the mix over the years. It is the wives names that make me suspect they are one and the same, i've looked at this group many times over the years but this time around I came at them from the wife's (not) family, the Van Schoonrewoerds

Tree builders over the years have seen a grouping of people all with the patronym Jacobse and lumped them together as a family unit. JBD's wives may have been sisters as they had the same patronym but Jacob is hardly a rare or unusual name so it is not a safe assumption even though a widower marrying his sister-in-law was fairly common in Netherlands.

Jan Gerritse Decker's son, Gerrit Decker, married Jan Broersen's daughter, Margrietje.

This is, from what I have read, the closest relationship between JGD and JBD and one theory is that JB took the family name D from this connection to JGD's family and not because of any lost ancestral connection.

Gerrit Jans Decker
Margriet Janz Decker

SIDE NOTE

Technically I think Margrietje Decker's name should actually display as
Margrietje Decker (Jans)
OR
Margrietje Jans Decker (Broer)

Her baptsim reads:

1664 Aug 31; Jan Broersen, Heyltjen Jacobs; Grietje; Willem Jansen Schut, Grietjen Jans

So if "Broersen" was Jan's patronym then Margrietje's name at birth would have been Margrietje Jans but if "Broersen" was actually a corruption of Jan's surname Broer then Margrietje's name at birth should be Margrietje Broer. Either way not Margrietje Decker.

Look at this compare

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000007105583314

Run descendant reports

I reacted at locations, managers & dates - they all look different, Port Jervis is not Kingston NY

Magdelena Jans is time traveling

Have you thought of un merging to extract her husband according to that manager

my knowledge of Medieval American geography is patchy and i hadn't yet got around to googling Port jervis.

no time to check now as heading out door but JBD has a son Broer, first guess Maggie is JBD's daughter-in-law but some one has confused JBD's son with an imaginary father for JBD, "Broer Decker". So Maggie J has ended up with an estimated DOB from the wrong generation

72 miles, not so close

https://www.distance-cities.com/distance-kingston-ny-to-port-jervis-ny

I reverted dates on Jan Broersen Decker to the original values. Now he matches Magdalena dates / locations but not name on this compilation

vanmeter-lineage.com/tree/vanmeter-lineage_WEB_20170312/ps69/ps69_365.html

Also message board search

http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.decker/851.856.994/mb.ashx

Re: deckers of grayson county, ky Posted on: 26 Nov 2001, by Al Decker
Surnames > Decker
...Magdalena Jans b. 1616 m. 1639 d. 1672, his father was Broersen Hendrick b. 1589 d. 1648, Broersen married Catherina Gerritsen in 1608 she was b.1592 d. 1639, Broersen's father was a man named Hendrick b. 1567...

http://www.deckerjourney.com/JanGerretsen/JanGerretsen.html

On the web, I have been seeing a great deal of confusion between Jan Broersen and Jan Gerretsen.  Both of these men lived in the area of Kingston, New York in the latter half of the 1600s, and both began using the surname Decker.  They were not the same person, and they were not related.  This can be proven through the records, as well as information from a DNA study in which I participated.

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1. Jan Gerretsen Decker was born in 1640 in Heernden, Holland. He died in 1717 in Port Jervis, Orange Co., NY.

[Notes]
Jan married Grietjen Hendrickse Westercamp on 23 Mar 1664 in Reformed Dutch Church, Kingston, Ulster Co., New York. Grietjen was born before 19 Oct 1642 in New Amsterdam, New York. Grietjen was baptized on 19 Oct 1642 in New Amsterdam, New York.

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(I think this line you got)

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1. Jan Broersen Decker was born about 25 Apr 1630 in Husum, Schleswig, Holstein, Denmark. He died about 1712. Jan immigrated in 1644.

[Notes]
Jan married (1) Heyltje Jacobs about 1652. Heyltje was born in 1635. She died on 9 Jan 1678 in Shawangunk, Ulster Co., New York. She was buried after 9 Jan 1678 in Kingston, Ulster Co, New York.

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http://www.deckerjourney.com/paf/pafn01.htm#497

Heyletje (JACOBS) DECKER, wife of Jan Broerse DECKER, died at Shawangunk (Shongum), New York in 1678. He married 2nd on, 14 December 1679, to her sister, Willemtje JACOBS, widow of Albert GERRETSEN and Jan CORELISSEN.

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Oh no wonder the tree is screwy, Gustave Anjou wuz here.

Erica regarding Broor that you tagged have you read my earlier posts in this thread. None of that line looks right.

I would like to see some primary evidence for a Broer Jansen Decker who is not the son of JBD

Posting on phone so no tagging

Understand, I'm asking a different question. I'm not asking about the ancestry or the validity of it. I'm suspecting that there are two different Decker lines with different origin points, wives and descent. Thinking of unraveling that back to how it was entered into Geni in 2010, find their references. Anjou had his fingers in this tree, that may be why it's got such hair on it.

I'm getting

Gerritsen Broersen Decker married Magdelena Jans

Jan Broersen Decker Married Jeyltje Jacobsen

Does that work?

Links not sources

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/4:1:L515-JQX
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=norva...

I think at this point we are working against each other, I am happy to change my mind if you are right but so far I think you have the wrong end of the broom.

There _are_ two Decker families one progenitor is Jan Decker (I don't know where the "Lt." comes from but we can leave it for now as a disambiguation). This Jan is from Husum in Germany (not Denmark) and marries first Heyltje[sp] JACOBS then Willemtie JACOBS.

The other Decker progenitor is Jan Gerritse Decker who was Dutch and married Grietjen Hendrickse Westercamp.

I don't know who the two men are that you link, they are both sons of "Broer Hendricks" who i still think is a late invention.

Jan Broersen Decker was apparently born in Husom Denmark and married Jeyltje Jacobs then died in NY ... there is a Hiusom in Denmark but the odds that there are two men named Jan Broersen Decker in NY it the 1650s both married to a woman named Jeyltje/Heyltje Jacobs both born in Husom but one German and the other Danish? That's insanely unlikely

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=norva...
fails the commonsense test, a German man with a silly name marries a Dutch woman then they have babies in Denmark, two Dutch provinces (one which DOES NOT EXIST) and then NY. Not a reliable site.

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/L515-JQX/details is a man born in 1614 who has a "son" (with a silly name) born in 1609??? Not a reliable site.

We’re not at cross purposes, I’m just trying to place the time travelers, and separate out the Magdelana Jans family family from the jeltje family.

Can you take a look at their kids?

I already cut / pasted one as a child of the Lieut. there’s a bio for him.

I don’t have an opinion on his parents, just want to get his kids to him instead of 100 years earlier or later.

I’ll post the bio if you haven’t seen it yet.

http://www.deckerjourney.com/paf/pafn01.htm#497

Jan BROERSEN (DECKER) was nominated magistrate at Horly and Marble; and the Governor accordingly notified the inhabitants of the appointment in a letter of 6 October 1673. Besides being magistrate BROERSEN was also lieutenant of the militia.

Elinor Randlemon, OURS - THEN AND NOW, pp.48-54,62-64;
OLDE ULSTER, (1906), v.2.