Claas JANSZ progenitors

Dear Christelle,

I would love to look into the DNA mismatch, could you please point towards the profile where it shows?

Kind regards
Jan

Jan,

The following profile shows two sets of parents after a merge:

Private

My husband's profile with the mismatched DNA in the discussion is:
Private User

Conflict is on a private profile, but shows on this public profile too: Samuel Gert Janse(n) van Rensburg

Correcting the duplicate sets of parents - using the notes of June Barnes - just moved the problem to his father:

Johannes Daniel Jansen van Rensburg - whom dont have a duplicate set of parents.

Unfortunately the other result (not your husband's) is marked private to me, but some sleuthing will reveal it.

Sorry, cross-posted Christelle.
I'll take a look at the Tree Conflict.

Oh, Jan, I see I'm playing catch-up to you :-) I'll leave you to look at it and check if I can help later tonight or tomorrow.

DNA mysteries are such fun to sleuth :-)

Haha noooo :) But interesting! If Geni/Curators are listening, we require a function to show the direction in which DNA is propagated on profiles. In this case the direction from the private profile is not downwards (which is the easier route to check) - and upwards you then have to go downwards.

Christelle, you would have received an email from Geni to tell you about the match. On that email you would receive a graph of the Y-DNA as well as the branch of the conflicting Y-DNA. For now I rest that that would be the easier route to go :)

In English without the "direction signs"

- DNA from parent

OR

- DNA from child

But I like the direction signs

This mystery may also be of interest to Private User - who manages the private profile whose DNA conflicts, and Johann Ahlers who added his father.
As Christelle says, the problem is a lot higher on the tree - because the two testees are only in the range of about 5th cousins - but that's quite fun to see if we can track it down.

Jan - it is possible to see, but as it's from a private profile not visible.

The line is Samuel Gert Janse(n) van Rensburg's.

I know my husband and Private User are both descended from Johannes Daniel Jansen van Rensburg, and she had a cousin that had a y-DNA test done (based on the info on this project page).

Perhaps somebody could look at the detailed results (I would love to learn how), since I'm having every du Raan cousin I can find tested...

Yes, Sharon, the problem seems to occur at Samuel Gert Janse(n) van Rensburg. I have invited Jan as manager to be able to have a closer look. It seems that one DNA-line comes from the visible children, and the other from the 'private' children...

I don't know how to attach a screenshot to a post like this, but the mismatched line goes almost all the way to the top... it propagates up to the b1 generation,

Johannes Janse van Rensburg b1

and then down through 5 generations to Samuel Gert Janse(n) van Rensburg and the private user.

Yes, Christelle, agreed. I was mistaken, it doesn't seem to 'come up' from below Samuel Gert, but rather seems to be 'projected down' right from the top at Claas Jansz...

Here is the conflict shown diagrammatically: https://www.geni.com/list/dna_to?focus_id=4073719119810071741&d...
Hope everyone can see it.

SO, it does "come up" from the Private User below Samuel Gert on the one hand, and Christelle's husband on the other.

Thanks for the invite Johann, I was able to see the profile and respective Y-DNA trees.

Next step was: (first the last information) Checked the profile from

Samuel Gert Janse(n) van Rensburg

and upwards and I can see everything is well sourced and sensible on paper (after adding a few sources here and there). Seems to be no question marks there.

On the other hand, we have (3rd step of the new Y-DNA result)

Private

-he is not listed as a child of his father, but we have a note that states there is a mistake on his father's MOOC record.

Then also he was deceased in Zimbabwe and no DN attached (which could have proofed his parentage on paper). However, from his father onwards all seem ok and I took the paper trail from there as correct.

Yet we cannot make a distinction based solely on little or obscure facts. A more open minded idea is to check for other JV RENSBURG Progs. I found none in SAG v9 but I am no expert on this specific surname, however the surname itself does lean towards confusion for e.g. there are many VAN RENSBURGs without the JV, which always made me wonder in the past as I have not come across the explanation yet... :)

There are also other conclusions one may make. But my suggestion is that we need more results first and that we let this conflicting result stand as is and until we increase the Y-DNA JV RENSBURG sample size.

I also had another look at Jan Hendrik's link when I started re-doing my tree. Private User's mom remembered Alf's grandfather, which is how we made the link to the family (I contacted her in about 2009 after scouring SAG). Alf and June also appears to be closely related based on autosomal DNA.

If there is anybody else available (obviously none of Jan Hendrik's offspring would be of any help) but of those cousins that are willing to be tested, I could sponsor a yDNA test.

The explanation for some "Janse(n) van Rensburg" vs "van Rensburg" is simply convenience... I started using the full surname (because I'm an engineer and that is the most correct and complete way -- and I wasn't going to do a double-barrel surname).

It is a long, long surname, and many forms do not have the space for the full surname. In Australia we found that we simply introduced ourselves as "van Rensburg" -- Medicare couldn't handle anything more, and people are mangling it to "van Resenburg".

I have a similar issue with my du Raan research. You cannot imagine how many different spellings I have found in addition to the du Raan/Duraan/du Rand/Durand/du Randt/Durandt versions...used by the same people...

To make my previous wiffle clear --

In order to help clear up this mismatch, I am willing to sponsor 2 y-DNA (and atDNA) tests at FTDNA if we can identify suitable candidates.

Since I am no expert, I will rely on the group to help me select the most appropriate candidates.

All I ask is access to their test results (they can remain anonymous) and that we be able to upload the results into this project (this may require the creation of a separate private profile for this purpose).

-- Christelle

I'm wondering if this is really a conflicting Y-DNA result?
-Nicolaas Frans (the descendant of b1c4 Hendrik Christoffel J.v.R) tests I-Y3664 (I1a1b1a1b)
-Alf (the descendant of b1c5 Marthinus Phillipus J.v.R.) tests I-M 253

I'm not a Y-DNA expert, but it appears that I-Y3664 is a sub-clade of I-M 253, both part of the same I Haplo tree. https://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpI.html

Has one candidate not just tested more markers and been assigned a more specific result?

Forgot to add that I-M253 is I1
(compared to I-Y3664 which is I1a.....etc )

Thank you, Ian - very insightful.

A quick attempt to verify the subclade issue, would be to have Alf's DNA analysed to a more detailed level. The sample is already with the testing agency; a request, albeit with associated cost, could render a quick result; and just may fully confirm that the results are, in fact, not in conflict.

We now already know that the results are not in conflict. Ian alerted us that one is a subclade of the other!
But it would be very instructive if we could narrow things down to the more detailed level, and, hopefully, end with the same (or very close) detailed Y-DNA result.

One upgrade to y-111 on its way... if only they could do it as quickly as on CSI...

Interestingly, there is a new match for Alf on FTDNA, (also through a y-67 test) and also in haplogroup I-M253.

He is not on Geni, but based on the family tree information he provided, he is a descendant of Nicolaas Jacobus Janse van Rensburg, b4c1d5