Testing for fake medieval and ancient lines

Started by Private User on Monday, July 2, 2018
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Showing 1-30 of 79 posts
Private User
7/2/2018 at 9:42 PM

According to the article Testing for Fake Medieval and Ancient Lines there should be no relationship path to Ramses II. However when I checked my path to him this is what Geni found.
Ramses II 'The Great', Pharaoh of Egypt is your 28th great aunt's 43rd great grandfather's wife's daughter's husband's wife's father's wife's uncle's wife's third great grandfather's wife's 11th great grandfather. I'm pretty sure you don't want to to paste the entire path since it shows over 100 relatives.
In addition I'm being told Alaric the Goth King of the Visgoths is my 46th great grandfather.
So what is the solution for people like me who have only added 500 ancestors yet have 10,000 in our trees? Either Geni or other members have contributed to my tree more than I have and I typically do not have the ability to make any corrections to profiles I haven't added.

7/2/2018 at 10:05 PM

Private User I can tell you my technique if it helps any.

There is a “share this path” hyperlink next to every connected to the tree profile. I copy / paste that to a notepad so I can find it again.

Then I look at the link to the immigrant ancestor, and satisfy myself that it is sufficiently well sourced. You probably don’t want to know how many I have found “not” satisfying.

Then I do a sourcing effort with results posted in the profile about. If the connection is bad, I disconnect and ask for the profile to be curated with a relationship lock.

So let’s say your immigrant is good, which is probably the case. The next step is to look at where the colors change and if that marriage is valid or not. Again, source, add notes if none, ask for profile curation.

When you get to areas on which you can’t find information, ask yourself based on family relationships / dates / locations: is this plausible? What you are looking for is the un plausible. Huge date & location differences. Start a discussion from the profile or in the project posting the profile link.

I’ll look at my own path to Ramses & see if there’s anything I can find also.

7/2/2018 at 10:09 PM
7/2/2018 at 10:11 PM
7/3/2018 at 1:30 AM

Ramses II 'The Great', Pharaoh of Egypt is your 71st great grandfather's wife's husband's father's wife's 6th great grandfather's wife's fourth great grandfather's wife's daughter's husband's wife's father's wife's uncle's wife's third great grandfather's wife's 11th great grandfather.
Hmmm - some checking of sources needs to be done here :-/

Map of the county Buren, Atlas Maior 1665 © Wikimedia Commons, PDM
Private User
7/3/2018 at 3:17 AM

Private User

When I started out in GENi, I experienced the same surprise as you. I entered a "few" profiles and did a little merging. All of sudden I then had tens of thousands of ancestors.

Now that I've watched the totals fluctuate and sleuthed a few lines, my main impression is that most ancient lines are unsourced.

I'd like to make a pitch here for GENi users to add more sourcing to as many profiles as possible. It can be tedious work but collectively, over time, we'll eventually zero in on the poor scholarship.

Happy hunting!

In my own case: I was once up to about 70k ancestors. This total had dropped to the 50s...

7/3/2018 at 4:33 AM

"I'd like to make a pitch here for GENi users to add more sourcing to as many profiles as possible. It can be tedious work but collectively, over time, we'll eventually zero in on the poor scholarship." +1 :-)

(No Name)
7/3/2018 at 4:45 AM

Still conneected to Ramses II - I will contact profile owners.
Ramses II 'The Great', Pharaoh of Egypt is Ingegärd Lindberg's 76th great grandfather's wife's husband's father's wife's 6th great grandfather's wife's fourth great grandfather's wife's daughter's husband's wife's father's wife's uncle's wife's third great grandfather's wife's 11th great grandfather.

Theodoric "the Great," king of the Ostrogoths
Theodoric "the Great," king of the Ostrogoths is Ingegärd Lindberg's 53rd great grandfather

Will contact profile owners.

7/3/2018 at 5:00 AM

:-) You'll have to contact profile managers for every profile on that line :-)

(No Name)
7/3/2018 at 7:44 AM

Not for every profile some are ok.
However I found one critical connection;

Anna von Lembeck

Claus Gotskalksen Gotskalksen Limbek

Both Ramses and Attila or Theoderic run through this father/daughter connection.

I wrote to the owners;

I am contacting you about this profile: Anna von Lembeck

In the source "finnholbek" I cannot find Anna Limbek or Limbeck or von Thienen.

Searching for Anna Limbeck or von Thienen results in:

http://finnholbek.dk/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I37993&am...... ? I can
Anna von Thienen: https://finnholbek.dk/search.php?mybool=AND&nr=50&t......

Is there any other source?


Nothing in this source about children and no Anna Thienen or Limbeck in the next sources either.



7/3/2018 at 10:59 AM

Worth looking into. I have this same info, from the old Herbert Stoyan database.

7/3/2018 at 11:42 AM

Let us know if you need help.

(No Name)
7/3/2018 at 1:25 PM

I noticed that Martinsson was one of the profile's owners. He changed some of the profile and I also added something. Revisions.

Anna von Lembeck

Then I got out of the dispute and contacted Anette Guldager Boye to send me more information. If Claus/Anna are not in finnholbek and only in roskildehistorie and not somwhere else like the Danske Adels aarsbok or elsewhere I would think that this connection might be wrong. But I wait until Anette is answering.
However I would like you to know the answer of Martinsson - no comment.

"I do find your interest this high up in the tree not concerning you, a bit strange, would be good to hear about your reason for this, because I still think that you should work on your own ancestry, you know, that with your own blue lines instead of digging in other family's family trees.

The amount of errors caused by you Gerhard, we have had to deal with and fix when you've been here rummage through other folks lines has been simple said, too much for us to really appreciate your attendance in these lines. Whatever her name was, or family she belonged to, she was my 18th great grandmother, and if you still are out for some stupid vengeance, (you wrote that your goal was to disconnect both Bohuslän and Västergötland from all known nobility, then I suggest that the other managers open their eyes, better sooner than later, about what your true interest lies."

(No Name)
7/3/2018 at 1:33 PM

If Anette Guldager Boye cannot answer about Anna von Lembeck I will be in Stockholm within 4 weeks at the Royal Library with the DAA and other sources.

7/3/2018 at 1:33 PM

Someone said:
> you should work on your own ancestry

That seems a very radical position. On Geni we want people to work in their interest areas. And particularly this far back, it doesn't really help to be territorial. Hundreds of thousands of people share this line. It doesn't belong to any one person.

7/3/2018 at 2:01 PM

One of the quirky things about our universe -- the experts in an area of history aren't always those who have a personal connection -- and those who have a personal connection don't always know enough to make the right judgments.


(No Name)
7/3/2018 at 2:01 PM

Justin, please have a look at the "geni" ancestry of my children's grandmother

Ingegärd Emma Lindberg

I have written at least 1000 pages about her ancestors - some of it is published in geni. There are bishops, pirates, east india captens aso aso and I have documented every profile in geni and my writings. Unfortunately she also had "noble" ancestors and old geni profiles opened a gate to nirvana, ramses and alladin.
So I think that we should get back control of alladin's lamp. Let the Martinsson's in the world simply be - reality, legend, fake and lie.

(No Name)
7/4/2018 at 4:55 AM

Anna von Lembeck is now disconnected from Attila and Ramses - very good
But now we have a new path to both Ramses and Attila - not very good.

Theodoric "the Great," king of the Ostrogoths is Ingegärd Lindberg's 55th great grandfather

There are obviously many loopholes.

Anna von Lembeck

This profile is not ok. Mother is wrong; the website roskildehistorie is partly wrong and there seems to be something wrong with Benedict III von Ahlefeldt. The only reliable information right now is in finnholbek, before we can check DAA (Danske adeln).


There is no Anna von Lembeck in finnholbek I hope that Anette Guldager Boye will have a look at this issue.

Private User
7/4/2018 at 5:15 AM

FYI, I became member her in autumn 2014, none of my family was a member before 2013, Gerhard accuses us for having creating fake profiles already in 2007, 2008, 2009, and it seems like you do agree with him, Justin.

Most of all this nobility profiles was created in Geni's first 3 years, there was a lot of errors made, bad connection, profiles attached o the right names, but not to the actual parents, often due to namesakes, and the fact that many didn't write down estimated years of birth, death, or posted other cousins facts in the about me section.

It took a year and a half to correct most of this mistakes in those Scandinavian lines, but since then people are continuing to create error by faulty mergings and adding wrong paths, sometimes it doesn't show up in the revision list who did what, making it hard to track the person behind it.

Anyway, do not let yourself be fooled, if Gerhard wants to cut off lines to his wife's side, because of whatever reason, you should really start to question this his motive before you questioning the profiles he wants to cut.

7/4/2018 at 7:38 AM

Gerhard, it's the same for many Americans with colonial ancestry. There are one or two lines that go back to an immigrant with royal ancestry. Then, further back, the royal ancestry explodes into all kinds of fantasy.

The way to solve the problem is to follow each line, do the sourcing, and cut the bad connections, then ask a curator to lock relationships so any future changes have to be discussed. It will take a long time to fix all the problems but it has to be done.

(No Name)
7/4/2018 at 7:39 AM

I became member in 2010 and I am a person who is studying documents and books about the profiles I am adding, I also try to study documents about the profiles I am merged into - if possible.
I am looking for sources in churchbooks, wills and tax records (mantal). I am two times a year in Göteborg in libraries and in Stockholm at the Kungliga Bibliotek which has all books ever printed in Sweden. I will be there again in July this year. They have all the DAA's and the "Gothaisches Genealogisches Taschenbuch der Freiherrlichen Häuser" - I will check this sources.

I also use to check the Jöns Jönssons, Anders Anderssons and similar names before I accept a merge with a cousin or an aunt. I am not a fan of being the 16th or 28th cousin of some Andersson.

There are simple rules in genealogy: Unless there are churchbook entries there should be contemporary sources - if possible at least two. Before the 17th century we have to rely on different documents about nobilities. Some are falsified. Therefore I didn't use to look into the medivial stories.

Not before I noticed (geni's relation software has improved quite a lot) that my family is related to almost everybody in geni and especially to Odin (which now is disconnected), Ramses, Attila aso. Althso Attila might have 10 million descendents and Ramses II even more I do not believe that any living person today can prove a descendancy - even if they might to be related.

Geni had become a fantasy land for "I don't know who". I know some of them who send messages every other day that they are related with "this and this" king - one of the worst was Ulf, related to everybody in the world - are you related to the POTUS?

I also noticed that my family is related to Bröt-Anund. For several reasons this was the trigger to start to fight against the fantasy monsters. Ulf, be aware that you will be cut of all the Heimskringla profiles. You better start to look for decent sources. Anund will be disconnected like Odin before him.

And by the way - for Bengt Snivil you better publish Saxo's original text, and also documents which are 300 years older.

There are very few historians in Sweden who still believe in the old legends (sagas). They disappeared in the studies and became legends. People like Bengt Snivil don't even appear in litterature - unless Ulf proves otherwise. But please not Heidenstam.

I did not want to cut of Anna - I just wanted sources which we did not get yet.

I allow you to dispute my lines - that's what we here for - to discuss, to dispute aso -maybe after this we could get closer to the (what is called) "truth". At least everybody who ever been in this disputes could agree on a common solution - that's what family. work and life is all about I have been doing this for more than 30 years at ASEA/ABB.

Critisize whenever possible and whenever relevant.

ANNA is not really a person who has a descent source.

Well, well - my family - besides me - stems from Göteborg, Majorna, Askim and Onsala. What they accomplished is still existing and alive - among others the ostindia ship Götheborg, from Onsala, the graves of the privateer Lasse i Gatan and from Linköping the grave of a bishop. Just samples.

I do not need Ramses or Attila - any relation to them just diminishes every work i have done in geni - it becomes a joke and makes me a funny man´. Ulf should not become the keeper of the medivial history, stay where you are and keep it cool and low.

Ulf wants me to be cut from geni forever, he thinks that I am a troll. Well we will have a fight to remove all the Heimskringla profiles from geni - I prefer Bröt Anund to be the first to be disconnected.

(No Name)
7/4/2018 at 7:49 AM

Justin I understand. One loophole at the time. maybe the prople in California - old gold diggers - all are descendants from Attlila and Ramses.

7/4/2018 at 8:03 AM

Gerhard, some of my California gold digger ancestors did pretty well for themselves, but I don't think even they ever figured out a way to buy new ancestors.


(No Name)
7/5/2018 at 6:58 AM

Would somebody please check this tree. My Spanish is rather lousy; there is no source besides geni and fabpedigree which I do not use and do not believe in.


(No Name)
7/5/2018 at 7:03 AM


This seems to be a private tree or a little fake`?

(No Name)
7/5/2018 at 7:14 AM


This is some funny fabrication. I will also send this information to support.

7/5/2018 at 7:26 AM

Yes. Fakes. Or more politely, "propaganda".

We need to find an cut the connection where it is no longer supported by the evidence. Somewhere around Andeca Lopes des Basques, des Vascons, Duque de Cantabria, I señor de Vizcaya, I think.

(No Name)
7/5/2018 at 8:05 AM


I once studied the little Latinum and I remember some of Gaius Julius Cesar. Did he really have a sister Aggripinia? I could not find in wikipedia " G J Cesar and sister Aggripina.

There were other Aggripinas in the history of Rome.

(No Name)
7/5/2018 at 8:09 AM

I think this is the sister of Cesar.

Vipsania Agrippina Major

Showing 1-30 of 79 posts

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