Flaald, seneschal of Dol - Will the Real Flaald please stand up?

1027-1039 - typo city. This means Hato was an adult male during approximately those years.

http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/sources/round/stewarts1.shtml

“J.H. Round: The Origin of the Stewarts: Part 1”

More references, from https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Round_and_Fox_and_the_Seneschal...

http://fmg.ac/phocadownload/userupload/foundations3/JN-03-01/061Dol...

“Paul A. Fox. The Archbishops of Dol and the Origin of the Stewarts Foundations (2009) 3 (1): 61-76. Copyright FMG and the author”

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/brittcope.htm#_Toc492709250

“Charles Cawley. Foundation for Medieval Genealogy, Medieval Lands Database. ”

http://fmg.ac/phocadownload/userupload/foundations3/JN-03-01/061Dol...

“Keats-Rohan, 2006, no. 18 and notes pp. 219-221, cited by Paul A. Fox. The Archbishops of Dol and the Origin of the Stewarts Foundations (2009) 3 (1): 61-76. Copyright FMG and the author.”

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/vxHx...

Andrew Lancaster "Stewards of Dol" Discussion on soc.gen.medieval, 12/9/2016.

Gotta love Round's snarkiness, but I wish he had clearly stated why he thought there ere two Alains, uncle and nephew, instead of one long-lived adventurer.

Guinguen, Abbot and Archbishop of Dol (d. 1039) was a son of Hamon, Vicomte de Dinan and a brother of Riwallon Seigneur de Dol (not to be confused with Riwallon the monk of St. Florent). Other charters, and researches in the time of Henry II of England, provide the names of brothers Hamon, Joscelin, and Salomon "the bastard", and include the curious notation that Riwallon was known as "Capra Canuta" (freely translated as "shaggy beard").

Although his name is spelled many different ways, I prefer "Guinguen", as it underlines the originally close links between Welsh and Breton (both P-Celt languages derived from Old Brythonic, as distinguished from the Q-Celt tongue spoken by the Irish).

And I repeat once more, one must *not* confuse the Seigneurs de Dol with the seneschals of Dol. The latter served the former, but were not the former.

Some sort of family connection is indicated by the occurrence of Alain fitz Flaald in an undated charter made by Main son of Tehel (and of Innoguen daughter of Hamon vicomte de Dinan): "Maino filius Theogineti […Theonus]" donated the churches of Gugnen and Voël to Combourg priory, with the consent of "filiis suis Haimone et Gauterio, et Alanus filius Flaudi"...r[631, 632].

It would be advisable to look up the original charter to determine whether Alan fitz Flaald was also required to consent, or whether he was merely a witness. Cawley has been known to chop his quotes so short that the real meaning is lost.

Found it. https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1041641k/f312.image It's very dense Late Latin but seems to say that Alan fitz Flaald had an interest of some kind in the church at Gugnen (so his agreement was required).

Started this discussion from a Master Profile despite several obvious wrongnesses - Flaald was no son of Aimon (Hamon) de Dinan, and was certainly not married to a hypothetical, probably mythical, member of the Scottish House of Dunkeld. (There are at least two Master Profiles, both with bad information.)

Most of the rest are disconnected bits of driftwood, and one or two appear to belong to Flaad fitz Flaald, brother (not father) of Alan fitz Flaald.

Private User I’ll power merge the old dup fragments together but you’ll need to get one of the medievalists to help on MPs.

Flaald, seneschal of Dol is your 29th great grandfather.
You
→ Alice Childers
your mother → Charles Childers
her father → Mary Martha Childers
his mother → James Uriah Seaton
her father → Kenner Houser Seaton
his father → James B. Seaton
his father → William Seaton
his father → James Seaton
his father → George Seaton
his father → Henry Seaton
his father → Lady Margaret Hay
his mother → Francis Hay, 9th Earl of Erroll
her father → Jean Hay
his mother → William Hay, 6th Earl of Erroll
her father → William Hay, 5th Earl of Erroll
his father → Christian Lyon
his mother → John Lyon, 3rd Lord Glamis
her father → Patrick Lyon, 1st Lord Glamis
his father → Sir John Lyon of Glamis, Kt.
his father → Johanna “Jean” Stewart, Princess of Scots
his mother → Robert II, King of Scots
her father → Walter Stewart, 6th High Steward of Scotland
his father → James Stewart, 5th High Steward of Scotland
his father → Alexander Stewart, 4th High Steward of Scotland
his father → Walter Stewart, 3rd High Steward of Scotland
his father → Alain Fitzwalter, 2d High Steward of Scotland
his father → Walter FitzAlan, 1st High Steward of Scotland
his father → Alan FitzFlaald, Sheriff of Shropshire
his father → Flaald, Seneschal de Dol en Bretagne
his father → Alain "Dapifer" fitz Flaald, Seneschal of Dol
his father → Flaald, seneschal of Dol
his father

I think there's some question about the bottom two lines, but it looks good up to Alan FitzFlaald, Sheriff of Shropshire and Flaald, Seneschal de Dol.

Cawley at Medieval Lands thinks Flaald's father may have been a fellow named Hato who was man-at-arms to Guinguen, Archbishop of Dol - but he isn't confident enough to state it as fact (no primary proof).

J. Horace Round, for all his formidable reputation, wasn't infallible, and never really explained why he thought there were two Alain FitzFlaalds. There may have been just one, with a robust constitution and a long career. (There *were* people like that, e.g. William the Marshal.)

Oh, yes, Billy Marshall. Am very fond of him.

What do you need MP'd?