Capt. John Sidney Hawkins - PLEASE REMOVE HIS MIDDLE NAME - AGAIN!

Started by Private User on Sunday, December 2, 2018
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He DID NOT HAVE A MIDDLE NAME.

He was also never married to any "Mary Lucas", falsely stated to have been born in "Baltimore,Maryland" in 1595 (Maryland did not exist until 1635, and Baltimore not until quite some time after that). She has been removed - DO NOT put her back.

I would do so, but I'm not the profile manager. Thank you so much for your input. Hopefully, the page-manager will also be notified and not just those of us 'following'.

If a Curator would just unlock the name field, any Pro could take care of it - although it's probably better for a Curator to take responsibility.

Done & locked.

Do we know anything about this John Hawkins (died young) besides attempts to make him the same as John Hawkins, Esq., of Oxford and John Hawkins of MD, "Mariner" ?

For the children of John Hawkins & Hester, Wikitree has:

Hester and John were blessed with ten children. They were:

Judith Hawkins 1639–1639;
Hester Hawkins 1640–1644;
Richard Hawkins 1641–174,
John Hawkins 1643–1670;
William Hawkins 1644–1689;
and Hester Hawkins 1645;

The children were all baptized at Slapton as the children of John Hawkins, Esq., and Mrs. Hester his wife.

Other children were
Robert Hawkins 1646;
Mary Hawkins 1647–1728;
Thomas Hawkins 1649–1695;
and Nicholas Hawkins 1650–1754.

The John b 1643 never married, his sister Hester was his heir.

Private Do we know parents of Capt. Henry Hawkins, of Charles County

Fair to middling, though the death dates for William and Nicholas are questionable (Nicholas especially - does this represent two or more Nicholases?)

Neither son Richard nor son Robert, though they married, had any children.

Well, Erica, this is from a half hour of snooping. This would need more sorting out.

Henry Hawkins (1643-1699) appears to have been born in England to Henry Hawkins (1622-1698) and Alice Crouch (1625-1687). Alice later married Edward Lloyd, who names Henry Jr in his will as someone he transported in 1659, along with his son Philemon, who Henry Jr called his brother. Grandparents could be Henry Hawkins and Mary Griffin.

He appears to have married Elllenor Wamsley in 1662 in London, who died in 1681, and then in 1683 married a widow, Elizabeth Holland, named in his will. A Henry Hawkins came from England to Charles County in 1659, 1665, and 1681. Henry Jr could be all three of these entries.

From T Buhrke:

This family (Hawkins) is very confusing because Henry's mother Alice Crouch [marries] Edward Lloyd after the death of Henry's father Henry Hawkins Sr. Alice Crouch gives birth to Philemon Lloyd after Henry. (which is why Henry initially puts Philemon & his children in his will as his brother until he has children of his own and changes his will) There is no record of Alice having another child with Lloyd, though it appears there is a Edward Hawkins who is Henry's brother but died young. There is a record that Lloyd Edward paid for the immigration of Edward Hawkins and Henry Hawkins to Maryland. I am assuming that it is these brother's but it might have been Henry Sr. and a brother Edward. Several other family trees put Henry's birth in Talbot, Maryland but I have yet to find evidence.

Alice must have died soon after Philemon's birth because Edward Lloyd gets married a third time and evidently has a daughter. Per this record, the daughter marry's Henry Hawkins:

"Deed recorded in the Land Records of Talbot County dated July 21, 1666, Edward Lloyd, of “Wye House,” conveyed “Winton” to his son-in-law, Henry Hawkins. In 1669 Henry Hawkins sold “Winton” to Nathaniel Evit for 6000 pounds of tobacco." from Maryland's Colonial Eastern Shore.

This Female Lloyd must have given birth to Mary Hawkins. This is surmised because Henry's second marriage is to Elizabeth Holland after Mary's birth.

As per above, two wills found: Or they could be the wills of two different people. The English were well known to hold off writing a will until on their death beds.

Hawkins, Henry,24th Dec., 1662;
15th Aug., 1673.

To Richard Woolman, Sr., Alis his wife, and child. viz., Mary, Richard, Alis, and Eliza: Woolman, Henry Costin, John Turley, Henry Henfry, Sarah and William Smith, Henry Pratt, Robert Noble, William Newbery, brother Philemon Lloyd and his wife, personalty.
To Rebecca Woolman, dau, of afsd. Richard and Alis Woolman 150 A. land.
To Edward, son of Philemon Lloyd, all lands included in 4 patents.
To Susanna Maria Bennett and Edward Lloyd, residue of estate, Equally.
Ex. Brother Philemon Lloyd.
Test: Griffith Stevens, Nath. Reade. 1. 554. MARYLAND CALENDAR OF WILLS: Volume 1

Hawkins, Henry,Chas. Co.,18th Oct., 1698;
12th May, 1699.

To son John and hrs., 100 A., “Goat's Lodge,” and ½ of “Hawkin's Purehase,” purchased of Capt. Josiae Fendall, formerly called “Fair Fountain”; also 266 A., “Hawkin's Lot,” whereon sd. son John now lives.

To wife Eliza:, extx., residue of “Hawkin's Purchase” and dwelling plantation during life; also 500 A., “Jamaica,” now in Prince George's Co.–but formerly in Chas. Co.— absolutely.

To son Henry Holland Hawkins and hrs., residue of “Hawkin's Purchase” and dwelling plantation at death of his mother; to pass to dau. Ruth and in turn to dau Mary in event of death of son John without issue.

To son Henry, 300 A., “Stone Hill,” Prince George's Co.

To dau. Ellinor Hawkins, alias Tubman, 238 A., “Hawkin's Addition,” and 100 A., “Come by Chance,” and 50 A., part of “Moore's Branch.”

To dau. Mary, 171 A., “Hawkin's Barrens,” 50 A., “Moore's Folly,” part of “Come by Chance,” and part of “Moore's Branch.”

Personal estate to 5 child. afsd.

Test: Cleborne Lomax, Jr., Cleborne Lomax, Ralph Shaw. 6. 310.MARYLAND
CALENDAR OF WILLS: Volume 2 VOLUME II.

The whole Lloyd-Bennett-Hawkins tangle is a much more complicated story and deserving of its own thread.

Check this out: Col. Philemon Lloyd (Note: this also draws in the Neale family, at least the Maryland branch of it.)

Somewhere along the way a Thomas Waters shows up and becomes associated with Col. Philemon Lloyd to such an extent that "Philemon" becomes a common name in his family. He is NOT related to the Anne Arundel Waters planter families, which makes it a head-scratcher where he came from. He may have married the daughter of one of Col. Looyd's collateral relatives.

Apparently I have an oar on the Henry Hawkins boat, because Martha Musgrove is my cousin’s wife. She was named in her grandmother Elizabeth’s will.

Disconnecting a couple of stray Hawkins

Katharyn Leaver

Lieut. Dolphus Hawkins

Mike Marshall’s database distinguishes betweeen Henry Hawkins of Talbot County (son of Henry & Alice Crouch)

https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I0515...

And Henry of Charles County (parents unknown)

https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I0016...

What I'd like to see is some evidence connecting Henry Hawkins of Talbot County with Henry Hawkins of Charles County. They're on opposite sides of the Chesapeake Bay (Talbot County is Eastern Shore).

Apparently the 1662 will *was probated*, which means exit Henry Hawkins Jr before 15 Aug 1673.

It is not a safe assumption that "son-in-law" literally means what it says - in the 17th century (and earlier, and sometimes later) it was also used to mean "stepson", which Henry Hawkins Jr. certainly was.

This one is odd, because Francis Wynne’s daughter Elizabeth is supposedly the one who married a Lewis, and there’s no Elizabeth in Henry’s will

https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I0016...

===
Cole, Giles, Chas. Co., 7th Oct., 1675; 27th Oct., 1675.
To Stephen Coward (Cawood) and John Lemare, John Hawkins, Jr., and his brother Henry, and their sister Eliza: Hawkins; also to Thomas Hawkins, personalty.
Henry Hawkins, ex. and residuary legatee.
Test: Humphrey Jones, Henry Neale. 2. 358.
===
Giles Cole 4.340 A CH #7586 #9238 Oct 9 1677
Legatees: John le Mare, Henry Hawkins (son of executor), Elisabeth Hawkins (daughter of executor), Thomas Hawkins (son of executor), widow of Stephen Cawood, Joseph Jessop (shoemaker).
Payments to: Maj. Rozer, Lidia Solley, Thomas Helgar, Robert Thomson,
Edward Abbott, Edward Barton, William Barton, Jr. by order of widow Barton's debt on Stephen Cawood.
Executor: Henry Hawkins.
===
Will of Francis Wyne, Charles Co.; written 14 Nov 1681, probate 7 Mar 1682
To son Henry of London, and hrs., 1/2 of properties, viz., "Ireland," "Angell," and "Pinwell Closes,' in Northampton, England.
To dau. Eliza: and hrs., residue of above-mentioned properties.
To son John, sd. properties in event of death of sd. Henry or Eliza: without issue; also 300 A., "Simpson's Delight;" 200 A. "Wassell;" 100 A. "London;" 100 A. "Blockstitch," 100 A. "Glowers' Point;" 200 A. "Pithly;" 90 A. "Burton;" 37 A., "Skidmore's Adventures,"and 37 A., "Susquehanna," all in Charles Co.
Wife Eliza:, execx. and residuary legatee of estate, real and personal.
Test: Geo. Groves, Robt. Price, Cleborne Lomax. MCW 2. 173

(There’s your Neale again, Maven)

We seem to have a shortage of Henry Neales just when we need an adult one.

I’ve uploaded the article “Section: Robert Middleton and Some of His Descendants, Ellinor Bayne and Elizabeth Hawkins of Charles ... “
Source Information
Genealogies of Pennsylvania Families from the Pennsylvania Genealogical Magazine. Volume II: Hinman-Sotcher [database on-line].” page 313 - 317 to
Elizabeth Holland’s profile.

Nothing more on Henry Hawkins Origins, but it’s a good picture of the extended family.

https://www.geni.com/profile/documents/6000000000590852124

From [http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~markfreeman/genealogy/hawkins.html “John Hawkins of Tavistock, Devonshire, and descendants including Sir John Hawkins”]

>”One of the children of John Hawkins and Hester Richards is thought to have been the grandfather of Philemon Hawkins b 1690 England. The line of descent cannot be determined. John Hawkins and Mary Dewe, long claimed to be a missing link, are now considered unlikely ancestors for the Virginia Hawkins families.”

That affects

John Hawkins, Esq., of Oxford

Mary Hawkins

Philemon Hawkins, I

William Hawkins of Orange County, Virginia

John Hawkins, of King William County

Nicholas Hawkins, of Spotsylania

Well unfortunately they start out with the delusion that John Hawkins, son of Captain John and Hester, was the same person as John Hawkins m. Mary Dewe - which he was NOT. (They add insult to injury with the blatant lie that John was the only male to have offspring - he had none, Thomas and Nicholas had a daughter each.)

http://welbank.net/hawkins/pah/mwstree.gif - this chart was drawn up by the author of "Plymouth Armada Heroes, drawing on all the primary sources she could find, and it's far more accurate than anything that has come down the pike since. Its biggest drawback is that it pays scant attention to the "Uncle William" line (descent from William Hawkins, older brother of Admiral Sir John).

Has anybody attempted to sort out this tangled mess through DNA testing? My only Hawkins cousin that I was in contact with (he lives in New Market, VA, still) suggested he didn't know when and where our Joseph Hawkins was born. He accepted Sarah Marlin as his wife, initially, in his research but then jumped onto the whole Widow Sarah MacDaniel, born Jones wagon, simply because he found an actually marriage record of this marriage. Just accepting that a John and Mary Long Hawkins were Joseph's parents and going through the collateral lines of descent of siblings, reaps several Joseph Hawkins. I'm so lost in the weeds with this line, it hurts.

The ONLY saving grace I have, is a totally unexpected DNA match to the living Marlin family. Since I descend through Joseph Hawkins eldest daughter, Sarah, I now know who her mother was. The controversy is over for me. But, it still leaves one wondering when and where Joseph Hawkins was born and just who were his parents? John and Mary already had a surviving son named Joseph. Hard to accept they'd name yet another son Joseph. I have thrown that one out with the bath water.

Someone over at the Hawkins site suggested a branch of the family migrated to Ireland. I do wonder which branch it was, and if that's mine?

My first tangle with a Hawkins is 3rd great grandmother Nancy Hankins or Hawkins in Kentucky; the handwriting on her marriage record can be read as either.

Well, she was a Hankins, not a Hawkins. And it looks like her family migrated from New Jersey.

Lesson: common English language surnames need careful geographic notes.

Mary Hawkins Dates don’t work with the rest of her family of origin.

Yes, there certainly are Hawkins DNA projects. I took a quick look yesterday

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/HAWKINS?iframe=yresults

http://hawkinsdna.blogspot.com/?m=1

Wow, Hankins. As far as I know that isn't one of the errors in my line. The Seviers are pretty well convinced John married a Hawkins. I merely asked about the DNA, as it has helped me resolve the controversy as to which Sarah my Joseph Hawkins married. You see, a very kind person over at WikiTree contacted me and let me know there was a FB page for the Marlin family, inviting me to come on over. I had a kit from another site, and shared my kit number. Before I could run my number against any of the others over there, the owner of the page did so. I match three living Marlin family members! Sarah Marlin is my seventh great-grandmother. I knew it in my heart, first, but now it is confirmed. Why else would I have such a DNA match? The only Marlins on my tree are Sarah and her father, Richard.

As for the Hawkins debacle, they have a website, too. Best they could tell me is there was a branch of the family that migrated to Ireland. Face/palm. So helpful, not.

Thanks for the links I shall check them out!

Of interest to me as my anc were Hawkins of London. In searching found this:

https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/LTHH-YYZ/john-joseph-hawkins-...

for John Hawkins of MD, "Mariner"

John Joseph Hawkins 1634-1676
Marriage: abt 1662
Mary Warner 1640-1685

Children (6)
Augustine Hawkins 1663-1696
Sarah Hawkins 1664-
Joseph Hawkins 1665-1724
Matthew Hawkins 1668-1705
Thomas Hawkins 1670-1705
Elizabeth Hawkins 1673-1740

PARENTS AND SIBLINGS
Richard Hawkins II 1612-1665
Marriage: 14 October 1633 Slapton, Devon, England, United Kingdom
Grace Cutland 1615-1639

Children (3) (his siblings)
John Joseph Hawkins 1634-1676 (him)
Elizabeth Hawkins 1635-1718
Grace Hawkins 1637-

Richard II parents: https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/LRJN-L15/richard-hawkins-ii-1...

So Richard II is this one: Richard Hawkins, II the father of John of MD

Richard Hawkins 1562-1622
Marriage: 1590 Plymouth, Devonshire, England
Lady Judith Hele 1568-1629

What's going on here is another Bad-Merge situation based on the usual MIS-assumption that ALL Hawkinses are related to the Admirals.

They are NOT.

We have dealt with Richard Hawkins m. Grece Cutland before. He is NOT a descendant of Admiral Richard Hawkins, period end of sentence.

FamilySearch family trees are NOT any more reliable than anyone else's. They are *every bit* as prone to error and wishful thinking and Wild Mass Guessing.

About Grace Cultand:

Married to *A* Richard Hawkins, but NOT the son of Admiral Sir Richard Hawkins.

She may have been from Wiltshire, as one of the children ascribed to her was baptized in Warminster, Wiltshire, on March 22, 1639. (Please note, this is AFTER Richard Hawkins Jr. of Pryvitt and Elizabeth (Drake?) started having children baptized at Slapton!)

"Select Marriages 1538-1973" turns out to be less than 100% reliable. According to werelate: org: This is an index of information transcribed from digital copies of original records housed in repositories throughout England. The index is stored in an electronic database which may be searched on the free FamilySearch site. The original sources may include church records, civil registrations, AND FAMILY RECORDS. (Emphasis added!)

Regarding the query upthread about DNA testing: there's a Hawkins project at Familytreedna.com As of last year they were up to 30 distinct Y-DNA groups and scads of Ungrouped - not a one of them reliably connectable to the Admirals. (They *had* hopes for group 6, based on a claim of descent from John Hawkins m. Mary Dewe, but failed to realize that that line is a barnacle - mis-attached based on Emma Siggins White fallacy, many long years ago.)

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/HAWKINS?iframe=ycolorized

Sure :) As said, saw and added here, I am not working on them, unless my Hawkins, a Fleet St Butcher, could be moonlighting as an Admiral :)

Here is the "Sidney" Hawkins lines:

John Hawkins, in right of his wife. He was born on 30th March, 1719, and was the youngest son of John Hawkins, carpenter and builder, and Elizabeth his wife, daughter of Thomas Gwatkin of Townhope, Hereford, gentleman. After qualifying as a surveyor he adopted the profession of the law and was employed by Mr. Peter Storer, whose acquaintance he made at the Academy of Ancient Music, and whose daughter, Sidney, as we have seen above, he married.

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/vol17/pt1/pp32-38

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