White - Coat of Arms

Started by Leanne M (Volunteer Curator - Australia) 🇦🇺 on Monday, February 25, 2019
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Joseph Geoffrey White {Australian WWII Soldier} has a Coat of Arms / Crest showing - https://s3.amazonaws.com/photos.geni.com/p13/24/69/28/f5/534448497c...

Other websites show different COAT/Crest for English WHITE's

COA belong to an individual person and the right to use it is passed down to their descendants. (https://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/resources/faqs)

The earliest WHITE in this line is James WHITE born 1822 location unknown

What proof is there that this Joseph WHITE has the right to use this particular COA?

If proof cannot be provided - this image should be removed from these profiles as it is misrepresenting a relationship to a specific clan of WHITE's that is currently unproven.

If proof can be provided, the image should be added to all of his descendants (his children + children of his sons etc) and ancestors

Private User
2/26/2019 at 7:07 PM

He's showing White of Tuxford (a Nottinghamshire line). This and White of Leixlip (Ireland) are the two most popular assumed arms for families with the name White.

"Assumed arms" means someone liked the design and/or had the same family name, whether or not they could prove a connection to the original holder(s). This is all too common in the USA, where the College of Arms has no jurisdiction. (I have been told it principally governs usage of arms in England, and doesn't look too closely at "casual" assumption of arms as long as there is no intent to defraud (e.g. not passing oneself off as a direct descendant). The Lyon Court, in Scotland, is *much* stricter.)

There have been some noted cases of "assumed arms" in US history - for instance, the early Dorseys of Maryland appropriated the arms of the Norman D'Arcy family, believing they were ancestors (they weren't). And while the Washingtons were *probably* descended from the family at Washington Old Hall, Durham, proving it hasn't been all that easy or conclusive (they seem to have been from a cadet branch that made its way down into the Midlands via Lancashire, and there are several iffy spots).

Private User
2/26/2019 at 7:13 PM

Done, I have removed it from him.

What is the source of his name being "Solider Joseph Geoffrey White"

Birth record - Joseph G WHITE
Marriage record - Joseph Geoffrey WHITE
Military record - Joseph Geoffrey WHITE

I assume from the image that the Solider is a typo indicating he was a soldier in the 2nd AIF in World War II? If it is then it should be in the Work tab not in his name
* Company - Australian Army - Second Australian Imperial Force

I have looked at the records and I cannot find any indication of his rank or start or end date. The record is not yet accessible online to the public https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsRe...

The name fields (Forename, Middle Name, Last Name and Surname) should only include a persons name according to records.

If it isn't a typo - what is the source of his name being Solider?

Private User
2/26/2019 at 9:29 PM

Leanne, if I haven't put this "Solider" in the correct place, please do show me by setting this up for me on Joseph Geoffrey White.
To me a person who was in the Armed forces were all referred to as Soldiers.
I think and believe that they all have earned the Title Solider.
The title Solider is a Military rank as is, Private Solider and Sargent.

Private User
2/26/2019 at 9:33 PM

Leanne
This is what I have found

* Global, Find A Grave Index for Burials at Sea and other Select Burial Locations, 1300s-Current
* ''''''Name Private William Henry Lisle''''''
* Birth Date 29 Aug 1893
* Birth Place Walcha, Walcha Shire, New South Wales, Australia
* Death Date12 Oct 1917
* Death Place Belgium CemeteryYpres (Menin Gate) Memorial
* Burial or Cremation Place Ypres (Ieper), Arrondissement Ieper, West Flanders (West-Vlaanderen), Belgium
* Has Bio?
NURLhttps://www.findagrave.com/memorial/12036470

----------

Are you sure you have the spelling correct?
Can you please show me a source for Solider as a rank in Australian military.

https://www.awm.gov.au/learn/understanding-military-structure/rank.
"Rank is the lawful authority given to a sailor, soldier, or an airman to command others"
Sergeant and Private are listed but not Solider or Private Solider

Private User
2/26/2019 at 10:02 PM

Typoes can be very hard to see - especially when you're the person who made 'em. (I get caught that way from time to time, too.)

Private User
2/26/2019 at 10:08 PM

Leanne, if you don't like them been referred to as Soldiers, please feel free to remove it for him

Thanks Shirley

For "William Henry Lisle", the rank is Private
For "Joseph Geoffrey White", we don't know his rank

From memory, the times that I have seen where rank is displayed
* where the person has died in battle
* for career military where the rank is quite high and in these cases the rank is put into the display name rather than the title, names or suffix fields.
Here are some examples
- Vice Admiral Albert T. Church III
- Admiral Hon. Sir Alexander Robert Maule Ramsay

I have also seen ranks placed in the title field.

For the examples above, here is what I would put into the fields
William Henry Lisle
* title - Private
* forename - William
* middle name - Henry
* last name / surname - Lisle
* Work Tab - Company - Australian Imperial Force (WW1)
* Work Tab - Position - Private
* Work Tab - Start Date - 12 December 1916
* Work Tab - End Date - 12 October 1917
* Overview
- 36th Australian Infantry Battalion, 20th Battalion, 19th Reinforcement.
- Regimental #6620,
- War Service: Western Front
- Medals: British War Medal, Victory Medal
- Killed in Action 12 October 1917 at Ypres - no known grave.
- Projects - add into appropriate projects

Joseph Geoffrey White
* Forename - Joseph
* Middle name - Geoffrey
* last name / surname - White
* Work Tab - Company - Second Australian Imperial Force (WWII)
* Overview
- Enlisted in Second Australian Imperial Force in WW2 at Paddington
- Service # NX91793
* Projects - add into the appropriate projects
(As far as I am aware we don't have anymore details for this person)

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