Aufrica / Affrica Of Fife - Inconsistencies

Started by Sharon Doubell on Sunday, May 12, 2019
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5/12/2019 at 1:30 PM

Heinrek 'Henry' Haraldson of the Orkneys born after the death of his mother Aufrica / Affrica of Fife.

5/12/2019 at 1:31 PM

Duncan MacDuff, 4th Earl of FIfe is under 12 years old for the birth of his child Aufrica / Affrica Of Fife.Duncan of Strathbogie, Earl of Fife born after the death of his father Duncan MacDuff, 4th Earl of FIfe.Heinrek 'Henry' Haraldson of the Orkneys born after the death of his mother Aufrica / Affrica Of Fife.

Private User
5/12/2019 at 6:10 PM

According to Wikipedia Duncan (Donnchad 1), Earl of Fife, was born 1113-1154, so that would make him 22 when Aufrica was born..Aufreca's birth date is given as 1135-

Private User
5/15/2019 at 6:01 PM

Wiki may be be guessing, but apparently Duncan was witnessing charters and such by about 1135, which would normally indicate that he was at least 21 by then.

There isn't much to go on in Cawley's Medieval Lands, but he cites a charter circa 1135 witnessed by Duncan of Fife, and gives 1154/55 as an approximate date when Harald Maddadsson "repudiated" (divorced/annulled) Afreka of Fife. (The he supposedly married a daughter of Malcolm MacEth, and we're back in the middle of *that* mess.) The source for this, though, is the Orkneyinga Saga, which is a secondary source with considerable embroidery. ,

Private User
12/11/2021 at 1:31 PM

there are two separate people of the same name, daughter of Gillemichael married Haraldur Maddadsson, eventually he repudiated her and then she married Gille Brigte mac Fergus, she was sister of Duncan.

Duncan had a daughter named after her aunt, and she married Jón Haraldsson, simple really once you see this.

Private User
12/11/2021 at 1:37 PM

suitable dates, of course approximate:

(aunt) Aufrica MacDuff 1126-1174
(niece) Aufrica MacDuff 1160-1220

Private User
12/11/2021 at 1:43 PM

children of Gille Brigte were born after 1155 so this certainly fits, and any children of Jón after 1180.

12/11/2021 at 10:40 PM
12/11/2021 at 10:41 PM

Adam, post links to your sources

12/11/2021 at 11:01 PM

HARALD Maddadsson, son of MADDAD [Madach] Earl of Atholl & his second wife Margaret of Orkney (1134-1206[993])....

m firstly (repudiated [1154/55]%29 AFREKA, daughter of [DUNCAN Earl of Fife & his wife ---]. Orkneyinga Saga records that Earl Harald married “a woman called Afreka”[997]. Balfour Paul’s Scots Peerage states that she was the daughter of Duncan Earl of Fife but cites no primary source apart from the Orkneyinga Saga, as shown previously which does not state the parentage of Jarl Harald’s wife[998]. The primary source which confirms her parentage has not yet been identified.

12/11/2021 at 11:04 PM

7. JOHN (-murdered Thurso 1231). Orkneyinga Saga names (in order) “Thorfinn, David, Jon, Gunnhild, Herborga and Langlif” as the children of Earl Harald and his second wife[1010]. The Icelandic Annals record the death in 1206 of "Haraldus, Maddadi filius, comes Orcadum, et Gisur Halli filius" and the succession of "comites…David et Johannes"[1011]. He divided Orkney with his brother David 1206, invested as Jarl of Orkney after 1210 by Inge II Bardsson King of Norway. Sole Jarl from the death of his brother in 1214. John of Fordun’s Scotichronicon (Continuator) records that "comes Cathaniæ" was regranted his lands by King Alexander II in 1222 after payment, following their confiscation for his involvement in the burning and killing of Adam Bishop of Caithness in his cathedral[1012]. The Icelandic Annals record that "Iohannes Orcadum comitis" was killed in 1231[1013]. He was murdered by Snaekoll Gunnisson, nephew of Harald III "Ungi" Jarl of Norway, and his body burned in retaliation for the death of the Bishop[1014]. m ---. The name of John’s wife is not known. John & his wife had [two] children:

a) HARALD (-drowned 1226). His father left him as hostage at Bergen 1224 with Hakon Hakonsson King of Norway. The Icelandic Annals record that "Haraldus Johannis filius comes Orcadum" was drowned in 1226[1015].

b) [JOAN . According to the Complete Peerage, Joan wife of Freskin of Moray was "possibly…daughter and heiress of Earl John"[1016]. Skene says that "the probability is that…half [of the earldom of Caithness]" was inherited by the Moray family from "Johanna…as indicated by her name, the daughter of John Earl of Caithness of the line of Paul"[1017]. Neither source cites any primary source which confirms Joan’s parentage, which presumably is just speculative. She was taken hostage by Alexander II King of Scotland in [Aug 1214 or 1222]. A charter dated 1269 confirmed a donation to the church of Moray by "domino Reginaldo le Chen minori domino de Duffus et Marie sponse sue filie quondam Friskyni de Moravia" and named "domina Johanna quondam sponsa domini Friskyni de Moravia"[1018]. m FRESKIN of Moray Lord of Duffus, son of ---. He appears to have taken control of part of Caithness after the murder of Earl John in 1231[1019].]

12/11/2021 at 11:25 PM
12/12/2021 at 12:22 AM

GILLIEMATHIL [Gilliemichael] Macduff, son of --- (-before [1135]). Earl [of Fife]. "…Gillemichel Mac duf…" witnessed a charter dated to [1128] by which "David…Rex Scottorum" made grants to the church of Dunfermline[288]. "Gillemichel comite…" witnessed a charter dated to [1130] by which "David…Rex Scottorum" made grants to the monks of Dunfermline[289]. m ---. The name of Gilliemathil’s wife is not known. Gilliemathil & his wife had [three] children:
a) [DUNCAN (-1154).
b) HUGH .
c) ETE Macduff (-after 1132).

cf Gille Míchéil MacDuff, Earl of Fife

Private User
12/12/2021 at 2:19 AM

Sharon, no sources other than referring to facts.

3 people married somebody by the name Aufrica MacDuff of Fife.

she cannot be the same person in all 3 instances.

highly unlikely that a son of a second marriage would marry the former first wife of his father.

i look at each person in turn, and see what actually fits the information given.

Private User
12/12/2021 at 2:28 AM

especially seeing how the dates all fit

12/12/2021 at 7:51 AM

3 people married somebody by the name Aufrica MacDuff of Fife.

Which 3?
Without sources the most likely answer is that there's an error.

Private User
12/12/2021 at 8:00 AM

while reading through documents referenced through these profiles, the material mentions that there is conflicting information giving Aufrica (who married Haraldur Maddadsson) as either sister or daughter of Duncan.

there is no reason to exclude her from being his sister, and the other person (the daughter) is a perfect fit for Jón Haraldsson marrying his first cousin.

12/12/2021 at 8:08 AM

Without documents, that's just join the dots, Adam. Everybody can do that in a different way - it has no link to reality if not backed up with historical data from the time.

Private User
12/12/2021 at 8:16 AM

Haraldur Maddadsson
Gille Brigte mac Fergus

Jón Haraldsson

sister of Duncan Aufrica
daughter of Duncan Aufrica
Gille Brigte mac Fergus Gilbert mac Fergus, Lord of Galloway
Haraldur Maddadsson Haraldr Maddadson, Earl of Caithness & Orkney
Jón Haraldsson Jon Haraldsson, Jarl of Orkney

12/12/2021 at 9:21 AM

The Aufrica who is the daughter of Duncan also has a brother called Duncan (after his father, unsurprisingly) They are the same person.
cf Aufrica

12/12/2021 at 9:25 AM

This profile Aufrica appears to be another version of the same woman with an additional husband - based on a Discussion here:  which appears to me to be insufficiently sourced to confirm. 
Private User
12/12/2021 at 10:22 AM

i think people have been confused on entering the information and not known what to fill out, there are references to secondary sources which conflict over whether she is sister or daughter of Duncan. however, if Jón Haraldsson married an Aufrica of Fife, this one will have been the daughter and the dates fit.

the Aufrica who was earlier and married two men can only have been his sister though, again comparing on dates,

Private User
12/12/2021 at 11:07 AM

this profile has mostly correct information for the elder Aufrica


and note also that she has a son Duncan of Carrick.

about the dates, i don't see how to reconcile this with her as daughter of Duncan (of Fife) unless by making Gillemichael a brother to this man:

Private User
12/12/2021 at 11:20 AM

is it possible that somebody simply "invented" the younger Aufrica of Fife, marrying her to the son of Haraldur Maddadsson in a partial attempt to explain the incomplete and conflicting information?

Private User
12/12/2021 at 11:41 AM

clearly, Kenneth III was historically the first MacDuff (literally, son of Dubh), so the later line of MacDuff must probably descend from him somehow?

Kenneth III Mac Duibh, king of Scots

12/12/2021 at 9:02 PM

is it possible that somebody simply "invented" the younger Aufrica of Fife, marrying her to the son of Haraldur Maddadsson in a partial attempt to explain the incomplete and conflicting information?

Adam - read above - the source for her marriage is the Orkneying Saga. Balfour Paul places her as Duncan Earl of Fife's daughter, but without a primary source.

12/12/2021 at 9:11 PM

On Aufrica if you or anyone else can track down the provenance of the sources mentioned in the conversation they are citing as proof, we'd be able to make a judgement on how primary they are.

On dates for people we are unsure existed - if we genuinely had those, we'd be in possession of far better primary source evidence than is being given to validate either.

12/12/2021 at 9:18 PM

On Kenneth - start a Discussion from his profile, but you'll need to actually do research in the area to hold it. Genealogy is, by necessity, about proof not conjecture. We don't invent profiles to link two people we feel should be linked because, on a collective tree especially, those bogus profiles mess up everyone else's lines too.

Private User
12/13/2021 at 12:31 AM

Orkneyinga saga is primary in the sense that in places it may be the only record we have.

the history was written down for prosperity.

12/13/2021 at 3:12 AM

Yes, that's true.
The rest, as far as I can see, is not even tertiary.

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