Dale C. Rice Maternal links to English Power Familieshttps://www.geni.com/path/Dale-C-Rice+is+related+to+Ralph-Neville-1st-Earl-of-Westmorland?from=6000000013463839522&path_type=blood&to=6000000001069437500

https://biography.wales/article/s-RICE-NEW-1500

RICE family, of Newton and Dynevor, Carmarthenshire

Descended from Gruffudd ap Nicolas, the family, later known as the Rices, reached their highest point of wealth and influence in the person of Sir Rhys ap Thomas. His grandson, Sir RHYS AP GRUFFYDD, who married, in 1524, lady Catherine Howard, daughter of the 2nd duke of Norfolk, was executed for treason in 1531. The evidence for his guilt was slight and his real offence was probably his Catholicism and his opposition to Anne Boleyn.

Griffith Rice's son, WALTER RICE (c. 1560 - 1611), was Member of Parliament for Carmarthenshire

Lewys Dwnn, whose pedigree of the family was signed by Walter Rice, described him as ‘one of James I pensioners.’ He was knighted in 1603.

In the next generation, HENRY RICE (c. 1590 - c. 1651), continued the effort to recover lost ground. In 1625 and 1629 he petitioned Charles I for a grant of such of his greatgrandfather's estates as remained in the hands of the Crown, claiming that Mary and Elizabeth had promised as much to his father and grandfather. He was certainly the anonymous author of the ‘Life of Rhys ap Thomas’ and the defence of Rhys ap Gruffydd, published in the Cambrian Register, vols. i and ii (1793 and 1796), and they were part of his campaign for the recovery of the family estate. There is no evidence that either he or his son, EDWARD RICE, played any part in the Civil Wars; both held lands in Dynevor and Newton in 1651, and the latter was high sheriff of Carmarthenshire in 1663. The date of his death is uncertain and his estates passed to his brother, WALTER RICE, who was nominated deputy-lieutenant of Brecknock in 1674.

The date of his death is uncertain and his estates passed to his brother, WALTER RICE, who was nominated deputy-lieutenant of Brecknock in 1674.

Also, info on the Vaughn family and their connections to the Rices:

https://biography.wales/article/s-VAUG-GEL-1500

And, Rice family, barons Dynevor:

https://archives.library.wales/index.php/rice-family-barons-dynevor

Hope that helps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewys_Dwnn

Lewys Dwnn composed many Welsh pedigrees and genealogical manuscripts which survive to this day and offer a valuable insight into the lineage of medieval bards and poets, some probably known to him and some of the generation preceding his. These are now found in both the British Museum and the National Library of Wales.

https://archive.org/details/HeraldicVisitationsOfWalesAndPartOfTheM...

You lost me at Elizabeth Latimer.

She did not have a son Henry.

https://books.google.com/books?id=mXkgAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA126&lpg...

Volume II

https://archive.org/details/heraldicvisitati02dwnn/page/n10

Dale C. Rice perhaps you were looking at this site:

“Rice, of Dyvenor”

https://archive.org/details/thomasbookgivin00thomgoog/page/n577

Which traces down to (almost) the current Baron - and Geni now does.

The chart aligns with the other sources mentioned and linked.

There does not seem to be a question about the origins of Henry Rice the writer. The History of Parliament article for his father mentions him several times.

Here’s his Wikipedia biography:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Rice_(writer)_

And as far as I can see, there is no Thomasina Mynn or Myal in this family.

Is there anybody here on Geni who *isn't* "related to" Ralph Neville 1st Earl of Westmorland, one way or another (or several)?

Seems like, if you can track *one* ancestor back across the Atlantic, they're related to *everybody*.

Here is a better edition of Volume I (more English, more searchable). The pedigree signed by Walter Rice shows the first son of Walter Rhys (1596) and wife Elisabeth is "Harri" (which is a form of "Henry"). However, he died age 13.

https://archive.org/details/heraldicvisitati_01dwnn/page/210

But it's a great looking pedigree chart, anyway. :)

Dale C. Rice,
At the moment we seem to be jumping around all over the place with different names and vague references to other internet sites with 3 people trying to interpret what you are wanting and getting increasingly frustrated.

It is a lot quicker and easier for us to assist you (and less frustrating to all) if you could
1. outline what is currently on Geni with links to the Geni profiles
2. clearly outline what you think is wrong and what you think it should be
3. clearly explain your evidence and if referencing a source clearly identify that source with links if it is online.

We are all willing to assist you and we are all striving for the same goal - making sure Geni is correct.

Now, Collins Peerage has a generation between Sir Walter & Henry the writer - a Henry Rice, Esq, no wife named.

Collins's Peerage of England; Genealogical, Biographical, and ..., Volume 7 By Arthur Collins. Page 506 - 507. [https://books.google.com/books?id=zvQ6AAAAIAAJ&lpg=PA505&dq...

Private User there well could be missing profiles on Geni. But yes, a link to what Dale is looking at will end the guessing game.

Not sure that's exactly what it means, Debra, and we really could use some input from Private User on this.

I would take the constantly repeated "1596" to be an affirmation that the people so tagged were living in 1596 - it does not look like a birth date.

Looks to me as though there was another visit in 1609 (not a plague, maybe another verification) and an update in 1613 to account for the four Williams boys.

//www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/rice-sir-...

When you look at Paragrap[h 1 It referes to Sir Walter Rice and his Heir, Henry Rice. 5 years ago Henry Rice was listed as a son of William ap Rice 1522 grandson of Joan Otter. That has now disappeared and we have non blood relative inheriting both the Estate at Dynvor and the title. That's my question to you. How did this happen unless he is the 1/2 brother of Griffeth apr Rhys ap Thomas 1508 son Griffeth born to Lady Howard ca 1527?

p. 210 of Volume I, the footnote to the Dynevor pedigree chart:

Newton or Dinevor, is in the parish of Llandeilo Vawr, in the county of Carmarthen. The house is situated in the midst of a most beautiful park, on the right bank of the river Towy, containing, amidst its rich groves, the ruins of the ancient castle of Dinevor, formerly the residence of the Princes of South Wales. It is the property of the Right Hon. George Talbot Rice, Baron Dinevor, who is descended from the Harry [Henry] Rys, or Rice, that appears at the foot of his Pedigree, through his mother Cecil, Baroness Dynevor, daughter of William, 1st Earl Talbot, created baron Dynevor for life in 1780, and widow of the Right Hon. George Rice of Newton, Esq., M.P., who was his father.

This George was the son of Edward Rice of Newton, Esq., and Lucy, daughter of Piers Dyrs, in Glamorganshire, and widow of ______ Games of Penderyn, Esq., who was the son of Grithth Rice, that succeeded his brother, Sir Edward, on his dying without issue,

and who was the son of Henry, or Harry, Rice of Newton, Esq., mentioned in this Pedigree, who married Elizabeth, daughter of Sir Edward Lewis of the Vanne, in Glamorganshire, and was the son of

Sir Walter Rice, Knight, in the time of James I.

https://ia800200.us.archive.org/25/items/heraldicvisitati_01dwnn/he...

Dale

Erica added Henry ‘the writer’ Rice, Esq. (1586-1651) as the son of Sir Walter Rice and Elizabeth Rice with the following references

---------------------------------------
Henry Rice (1585 or 1586 – 1651) was a Welsh writer and gentleman at the court of King Charles I.

Biography
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Rice_(writer)_ retrieved 16 October 2019

Rice was part of the Rice family from Wales that included Gruffydd ap Rhys ap Thomas (died 1521) amongst its members - Rice was his great-great-grandfather. The son of Gruffydd ap Rhys ap Thomas, Rhys ap Gruffudd, was executed for treason in 1531 and his property was confiscated. Subsequent generations, including Rice's father (Sir Walter Rice) and Rice, spent much time and effort in attempts to claim back the confiscated land from the Crown. Rice himself matriculated at Jesus College, Oxford on 7 December 1607 at the age of 21, obtaining his Bachelor of Arts degree 10 days later on 17 December 1607. He became a gentleman of the privy chamber to King Charles I and used his position to present petitions for the return of family estates in 1625 and 1629. His writings included a Life of Sir Rhys ap Thomas, the father of Gruffydd ap Rhys ap Thomas and regarded as the leading member of the family, and Objections against Rice Griffith in his indictment, with the answers thereunto; both were written in the late 1620s. The Life was a significant source of information about the history of south Wales in the 15th and early 16th centuries. Rice died in 1651.

Links
https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Henry_Rice_(41)_
http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/ri... “Sir Walter Rice probably died shortly after December 1635, the date of the final letter from his son, but he apparently left no will or administration, probably because his lands had already been passed to his son Henry.”
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/138299332/edward-mansell “ELISABETH eldest daughter of the said Sir EDWARD was maried to Sir WALTER RICE of Newton in the County of Carmarthen Knight and hadd issue HENRY RICE Esqr etc:”
https://www.oxforddnb.com/view/10.1093/ref:odnb/9780198614128.001.0...
http://www.thepeerage.com/p39436.htm#i394356
https://biography.wales/article/s-RICE-NEW-1500
https://archives.library.wales/downloads/dynevor-estate-records.pdf
The Thomas book, giving the genealogies of Sir Rhys ap Thomas, K. G., the Thomas family descended from him, and of some allied families Author Thomas, Lawrence B. (Lawrence Buckley), 1848-1914. “Rice, of Dynevor.” Page 471 - 472. Archive.Org
Collins's Peerage of England; Genealogical, Biographical, and ..., Volume 7 By Arthur Collins. Page 506 - 507. GoogleBooks has this Henry as son of Henry, Esq., son of Walter
Heraldic visitations of Wales and part of the Marches; between the years 1586 and 1613, under the authority of Clarencieux and Norroy, two kings at arms Author Dwnn, Lewys, d. 1616?,Meyrick, Samuel Rush, Sir, 1783-1848, ed,Society for the Publication of Ancient Welsh Manuscripts, Abergavenny. Page 211. Archive.Org

________________________________

Are you saying that is not correct?

I agree with Maven on the dates in the Visitation, they do not refer to birth / death dates, but rather, to the Visitation date.

Excellent, Dale, HOP is a great source. Sir Walter’s sin & heir was Henry. Collins suggests he was Henry Esq, father of Henry the writer. That seems possible but we would need more info. In any event, Henry the writer is the ancestor of the current baron.

So Dale - the question is ???

I.

"Henry, or Harry" is a direct quote from the pedigree.

https://www.geni.com/path/Dale-C-Rice+is+related+to+Sir-Walter-Rice...

Sir Walter is my 3rd cousin 13 generations removed. Henry the Writer is the son of Henry Rice the heir mentioned above as I read it. DCR

I see what you mean about the dates, although I don't understand them myself. Therefore Harri ("Henry") probably did not "die age 13" as I had surmised earlier).

Is Henry the Heir mentioned in the History of Parliment online the Son of William ap Rice 1522 and ? (Formerly Elizabeth Latimer now unknown). Thanks for staying with me on this as you can see the Baron's of Dynvore are cousins (albiet Distant at 13 x). Still it's a matter of connecting Henry Rice of Newton to Ancient Planter Rice in Virginia once we figure it out. DCR

It is the relationship of the current baron you are questioning, I take it. But with the possible missing a Henry, I do not see that Geni is incorrect.

George Rice-Trevor 4th Baron Dynevor Was the last direct descendant, then the Barony passed to his cousin.

Geni says: Henry Rice is George Rice-Trevor 4th Baron Dynevor's fourth great grandfather. https://www.geni.com/path/George-Rice-Trevor-4th-Baron-Dynevor+is+r...

If you give me another minute I will pushpin Henry the writer back to Joan Otter.

I take it you have not read the pedigrees.

As far as I can see from the Thomas Book & Collins, no one from this Rice family went to America as a colonist.

Not to Virginia.

Not to New England.

If the dates on these 2 profiles are correct, I don't think there can be a missing generation here
Sir Walter Rice born 1562
son Henry ‘the writer’ Rice, Esq. born 1586

That's only 24 years which would be plausible for a father and son but I think impossible for a father and grandson.

https://www.geni.com/path/Dale-C-Rice+is+related+to+Sir-Walter-Rice...

The idea is that people from the same area: The rices of Dynvore may have connections to Ancient Planter Rice Virginia 1621. That person is the 4th cousin of my 7th great grandfather ie : Perrot ap Rice disappeared 1640.

This is not correct:

Is Henry the Heir mentioned in the History of Parliment online the Son of William ap Rice 1522 and ? (Formerly Elizabeth Latimer now unknown).

——

Henry Rice Esq was the heir of Walter Rice MP by his wife Elizabeth Mansell.

—-

Walter Rice MP was the son of Griffith Rice & Elizabeth Jones.

Griffith Rice was the son of Rhys & Katherine Howard.

I am looking at all the possible connections to support my Thomas of Liether as son of Perrot ap Rice and myself having cousins in Virginia known as Pughe/ Atkins. That's all checking all possible ways family may have been in touch without a written format is HARD work, I get that. But they did communicate. And I keep all of them in the Air as finds of possible connectedness. Yes: I have looked at over 15,000 relationships on Geni and My father was correct on every one
of them he told me about.

Henry the writer’s Birth date of 1585 or 1586 is based on his matriculation record at Oxford, Jesus College, at age 21 (which is odd - the “usual” age was about 16). However he took his BA immediately so it seems pretty valid.

Sir Walter’s Birth date is an estimate.

The “esquire” gives me pause.

Thanks to LeAnne above for keeping me abrest. Not as good at this as I thought I was. DCr