Rabbi Yehudah HeChassid - Suffix of HaLevi

PS: Nor is there a mention of HaLevi in association with the Kalonymos family in the Jewish Virtual Library article about the family: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/kalonymus

Private User that's a query I touched upon here - https://www.geni.com/discussions/162395?msg=1189248 a couple of years ago. Indeed, it hasn't been dealt with here on Geni. The title and more importantly perhaps, the connection to well known HaLevi families need looking into.

Private User Many thanks for your work over the years... According to the current GENI tree, if the TaZ is HaLevi then so would be Yehuda HeChassid, both through Abun Kalonymus. In such a situation, without any other confirmatory evidence, there is always the possibility that there is some 'reverse' suffixing taking place which is based on an accurate pedigree from the TaZ to R' Abun and then back down to R' Yehudah HeChassid. I'm mentioning any of this because I am considering the possibility that Meshullam (the Great) may have been HaCohen. So if R' Abun is truly HaLevi then under this hypothesis he could not also be the son of Meshulam the Great, or alternatively there could be an error in the TaZ to R'Abun pedigree (I am not an expert on this tree so that will be for others to verify). I also suspect that the use of Kalonymus as a surname could have occurred in more than one lineage. I'm keying in on the lack of any mention of a HaLevi origin in any of the discussions of the Kalonymus family in either the Jewish Encyclopedia or the Jewish Virtual Library. I am satisfied by merely having this discussion opened since perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me may help shed some light. My hope would be that some evidence that Meshulam the Great lineage is a HaLevy lineage, independent of the GENI pedigrees. may appear on the horizon. Good Evening, Adam

According to Wakstein:
1: the TaZ is not a relative of the Maharsha family (it is a mistake that someone once wrote)
2:the Maharsha family Indeed descendants of Rabbi Yehudah HeChassid

Haim Katz - Hachoen Wartski Thanks for supplying the Wakstein conclusions. Looking at the Maharsha matzeva I can see that he is ben Yehuda HaLevi so clearly that line is a HaLevi line and that would mean HaLevi all the way to Yehuda HeChassid and his father Shmuel (Shmuel haChassid s. Kalonymus V, of Speyer). And here is the real nut to crack: who is the father of Shmuel? If, as posited by Wakstein (see 'About' section on Shmuel's profile), Shmuel's father is not Kalmen HaZaken (Rav Kalonymus "HaZaken") but is instead Eleazar of Worms Rokeach, Eleazar ben Yehudah of Worms (Rokeach) (not to be confused with Eleazar HaGadol of Worms) then there would be no patriline connection between the long descent of Shmuel heChassid (which includes the Maharsha family) and the Meshulam HaGadol Kalonymus. An aspect of this discussion is that the Eleazar Rokeach discussed here is probably not a descendant of the Meshulam HaGadol family as presented in my discussion on the Eleazar Rokeach profile. Therefore, the alternative view is that the Yehudah ben Shmuel heChassid ben Eleazar Rokeach patriline lineage is HaLevi, but that the Meshulam HaGadol patriline is not known to be HaLevi.

Haim Katz - Hachoen Wartski As for the TaZ discussion there are two views I can think of: 1) it could be that the there is a misconnection between the TaZ linage and the father of Dov Berish (Saltsman) HaLevi Ashkenazi (Rabbi Dov Berish Halevi Ashkenazii). On the current GENI tree is father is given as Moshe Zalman (Kalonymus) ben Yehuda heChassid. but since Dov Berish is the first in the descending lineage to be given the HaLevy suffix, then it could be that making ben the Kalonymus line is incorrect, or 2) it could be that the TaZ lineage is correct and that both the TaZ and Maharasha patrilines are HaLevi, descending from Shmuel HeChassid (now considered HeLevi). Whether or not Shmuel is the son of Eleazar Rokeach remains an open question. On my tree for now I am disconnecting Shmuel HeChassid from the Meshulam HaGadol line and leaving his paternity blank, while keeping the TaZ and Maharasha patrilines intact up to Shmuel HeChassid.

Private User

I tried to call Naftali Wakstein this morning to ask him your question, he did not answer me, if he answered I will update you.
But from what I remember the talking with Naftali a month ago about Rabbi Yehuda Hechassid.Because there are ancient mothers who do not know who they were, You can't move upward (up to Samuel the Prophet),If that is your intention, however, I wish you good luck
btw Regarding the relationship between Rashi-yochanan Hasandlar and King David, Naftali wrote to me that he had very interesting information on the subject, and he is studying it..,

Haim Katz - Hachoen Wartski I appreciate the diligence. This is important historical material and should be pursued as far as time and evidence will allow. I am not trying to connect any lineage with Samuel the Prophet, this is beyond my scope at present. My main interest is to try to clarify the descending lines from Meshulam HaGadol because I hypothesize that Meshulam HaGadol's may have been a Kohanic lineage. So far I do not see any hard evidence that R; Yehuda HeChassid is a patriline descendant of Meshulam HaGadol (please, anyone, alert me of any such evidence). So as not to overburden Naftali with communications, I am content with awaiting your updates on what you are able to discover about his work.

Private User

I am a descendant of the Kalonymus family from several branches.I saw one branch that says they are from the cohanim family I don't know if that's true.
Personally, I'm not interested in it. The whole wartski family is a cohanim family
And the only thing that interests me is finding more great grandparents and thus increasing my family tree.
btw,If you know someone who has a subscription to Ozar Hachochma you may find a great deal of information there to help you,

Private User I have no proof regarding the Kaloymous tree's Levi heritage, but the Yolles family are Cohanim and the Kohl/Cohl family are Levi. I will look into it, but I have a feeling that the Kalonymous family probably has both, as Rabbis marrying into families with famous surnames were often adopted them. I will look into the academic research.

Private User
Private User

Naphtali Wakstein called me now, let's make things right:
The Maharsha family is a Levite family and they are descended from Samuel the Prophet.
From the other side of the Maharsha family they are descendants of Rabbi Yehudah HeChassid,but He is not a Levite family, and he is not descended from Samuel the Prophet

I have now read Wikipedia in Hebrew, nowhere written that Rabbi Yehudah HeChassid he is from levite family.In the profiles of his family where it is written that they are from the Leviim family, it"s need to be corrected, they are not Leviim.

Haim Katz - Hachoen Wartski Private User Not sure I fully follow what Wakstein says. The MaHarSha's (Shmuel Eliezer haLevi Eideles, MaHarSha) patriline goes all the back way to Yehuda HeChassid so how can the MaHarSha be HaLevy but Yehuda HeChassid is not HaLevy? Meanwhile, Yehuda HeChassid's patriline ancestry goes all the way back to Meshumal HaGadol K. So if Yehuda HeChassid is not HaLevy then the GENI tree which shows him as a patriline ancestor of the MaHarSha has to be corrected. Perhaps the easiest way would be to send Naphtali the MaHarSha's Ancestor Report going all the way from the MaHarSha to Meshulam HaGadol from GENI and let him identify where the error(s) is/are so that these can be addressed with the appropriate profile managers on GENI. Here is the Ancestor Report from MaHarSha to Yehuda HeChassid to Meshulam HaGadol as it appears on today's date: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tubtx5bsdk746zv/MaHarSha_GENIAncestors_13... Perhaps Naphtali could look at this URL and tell us what needs to be changed?

Private User
The Maharsha family is the Levim family, and they are direct descendants of Samuel the Prophet.
On the other side of the Maharsha family, they are direct descendants of Rabbi Yehudah HeChassid, but he is not from the Levi family, and he is not descended to Samuel the Prophet
He told me that when we meet he will explain more in detail
He told me that for me it didn't matter, because on one side I am descended to Samuel the Prophet, on the other side I am descended to Rabbi Yehudah HeChassid, and he is right

I forgot to mention another thing: Wakstein does not speak English, and cannot read English
He told me he went into my family tree and wanted to go over it, but because most of it is written in English, he left, that's why some of the profiles I moved to Hebrew

Haim Katz - Hachoen Wartski I see the problem. Someone who can may need to translate the MaHarSha Ancestor Report names to Hebrew so that Naphtali can review and edit.