Mary Ann Elizabeth Mundy (Howe)

I have always believed that Anne Howell was Nancy Anne Howell. There are a few other things in the article that are not correct- Not all of Eliza Bellette's children had Henry Mundy as their father- the first four are the children of John Franklin / Yard. Birth certificates show who is who and DNA matches prove the younger Franklins to be Mundy's. School and christening records, areas the families grew up in would indicate the Howell family as the correct one, not Howe. regards Louise.

Another point to add to this, is that in the early 1900's Rachel Howell, wife of a Thomas Howell was in Lilydale Tas and named in a newspaper article as being in trouble with the law in the company of the Mundy's and other relations.
I also found DNA matches with a HOWELL descendant who was in ENG, the child of a HOWELL who had married in ENG during world war 1.

Back on the trail.............................and very interesting, as I believe all the evidence was 'under our noses'!!

Firstly, the wife of Henry Edward.
If one inspects the present record for Mary Ann Elizabeth Mundy, one will note that the burial citation, both newspaper, and Carr Villa burial records (not attached) show Ann Mundy, with no Mary or Elizabeth in her name.
Mary Ann Elizabeth Howe
Similarly, if the original marriage cert. for Ann & Henry is inspected, her name is again, Ann. (Leave the Howe bit aside at present, we'll come to this).
So it is a little difficult to accept that suddenly Ann changes her name to Mary Ann Elizabeth, where her marriage and burial name (Ann) is not first in the string of Christian names.
Note that in the death/burial record, Ann Mundy's age in 1912 is given as 89, so birth was around 1823, not 1827.
Yes, there was a Mary Ann Elizabeth Howe, who presently appears as the wife of Henry. This Mary was born to James Howe, a waterman, (who would be based in Hobart) & baptised in Hobart, no where near the area where Henry was.
I believe Ann Mundy's parents were Thomas Howell and Elizabeth Newport, who both lived in Pittwater.

Now the 'good bit!!'
If the original birth records for Henry & Ann's children are checked (and all are attached to the records):
* Adeline Louisa,
* William George,
* Ellen Sarah,
* James,
* Henry Joseph,
* Mary Eveline,
* Emaline, and
* Clara
one will see that their mother is given as Ann Howell
The same surname of Howell is also given as the mother of Nancy Elizabeth on the certificate of marriage to Thomas Beck in 1912. (For an unknown reason, Nancy Elizabeth's name is repeated for her mother; this appear to be an error)

So what do you think? Based on the above, can we change Henry Edward's wife to Ann Howell?

Hi Duncan, I hadnt realised I had put the parents in for Ann Howell. I must have done it years ago after reading the other researchers incorrect information. The problem being I cant see how to remove the wrong parents and subsequent wrong ancestors.

Here's further information on Ann Howell, and it appears how she went from being baptised Nancy Howell to being known as Ann Elizabeth
Phew!..........can see how this can be all confusing!

See the link for details:
http://users.ncable.net.au/~jburrell/gen/newport/how_new2.html

Duncan Gordon Hodder, I will have a look at all the sources attached. Ann seems to have changed her name from Howe to Howell during the birth of her children

I think I have looked at all the sources attached and ensured they are attached to the profiles

Here is what is sourced
* Mary Anne Elizabeth HOWE was born 30/9/1827 baptised 30/12/1927 - daughter of John and Mary
* Henry MUNDY 23 married Ann HOWE 20 on 2/7/1847 - witnesses Edward HOWE and Sarah MUNDY
* Emily MUNDAY born 30/11/1848 to Henry MUNDAY and Anne HOWE
* unnamed MUNDY born 4/6/1851 to Henry MUNDY and Ann HOWELL
* Adeline Louise MUNDY born 6/9/1953 to Henry MUNDY and Ann HOWELL
* Henry Joseph MUNDAY born 9/11/1856 to Henry MUNDAY and Ann HOWELL
* William George MUNDAY born 21/5/1859 to Henry MUNDAY and Ann HOWELL
* James MUNDY born 3/10/1861 to Henry MUNDY and Ann HOWELL
* Ellen Sarah MUNDY born 12/5/1864 to Henry MUNDY and Ann HOWELL
* Mary Eveline MUNDY born 7/3/1866 to Henry MUNDY and Ann HOWELL
* Clara Susan MUNDY and Emeline Frances Maria MUNDY born 17/8/1872 to Henry MUNDY and Ann HOWELL
* Ann MUNDY buried 22/1/1912, mother of Elizabeth WHITE

From that we know that Ann
* was born c1827 (aged 20 on 2/7/1847)
* is somehow related to Edward HOWE (witness)
* used the name HOWE in 1847 and 1848 but used HOWELL from 1851 to 1872

There is currently
* no evidence that Mary Anne Elizabeth HOWE born 30/9/1827 is the same person as Ann HOWE / HOWELL
* no evidence of Ann HOWE/HOWELL's parents
* no information on how she is related to Edward HOWE, witness at her marriage - could be father, uncle, step-father, brother - or no relation at all.
* no information on why she changed the spelling of her name from HOWE to HOWELL between 1848 and 1851 - she signed her marriage with an X so I assume she was illiterate at her marriage

I propose that we add a new profile Ann HOWE (HOWELL in aka) with unknown parents, born c1827, died 1912 and detach Mary Anne Elizabeth HOWE from Henry MUNDY and children

I think this is a good step while we look to see if further info might be available to sort out the Howe/Howell

Here is the new profile for Ann
Ann Mundy

I have moved all the sources to her.

I note with great interest what has been written above as Henry Edward Mundy being my 2nd G Grandfather. After being contacted regarding my tree and DNA on Ancestry I now have many, many matches with who I now believe is his wife - Nancy Elizabeth(Ann) Howell. Her parents are Thomas Howell and Elizabeth Newport. Elizabeth's parents are John Newport and Frances Shailer. I continue to get "Common Ancesters" DNA matches down this line.
Has anyone else researched this as well as I didn't want to add to the tree without discussion with the group.
Henry Edward Mundy has had children with 3 different women who are coming up as 1/2 Aunts/Uncles etc in my DNA matches
regards
Eileen

Hi Eiileen, you are correct, I too have a number of matches with common ancestors as Howell, Newport and Shailer, which includes one that is definitely a HOWELL ancestor. Further, in regard to the article Wynette FORD wrote that is included in the ancestry magazine, she later, 'retracted' her theory on HOWE and agreed that HOWELL was 'correct'. regards Louise