Lifsha Halprin (Shapira) - Lifsha connected to wrong husband, and has 2 sets of parents

I believe Rosa Babad must be the correct daughter of Yitzhak Babad, A.B.D. Brody "Krakover" i.e. the one who was married to R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav

Claudia

Claudia Bullock
Kevin Lawrence Hanit
According to the information I was able to reach:
R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav
Was the son-in-law of
Yitzhak Babad, A.B.D. Brody "Krakover"
he was the son-in-law of:
Rabbi David HaLevi (the Katvan) -
and he was the son-in-low of:
HaRav Shabty Ashkenazi HaCohen Katz, the "SHaCH"

Kevin Lawrence Hanit
Claudia Bullock

I think I found the mistake:
On Wednesday, Reitze Halpern (Babad) was merged with lifsha's profile
The merger is a mistake, and the lifsha must be deleted

Haim Katz - Hachoen Wartski,

I agree with you that R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav was the son-in-law of Yitzhak Babad, A.B.D. Brody "Krakover" however, this is due to the marriage of R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav to his daughter Reitze Rosa Babad. There does not appear to be any evidence that R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav was ever married to anyone named Lifsha, so I believe that Lifsha needs to be disconnected from him.

Claudia

Haim Katz - Hachoen Wartski,

Thanks and this issue is now solved as I undid the merge that was done in error and it produced the following profile Rebbetzin Reitze Halpern.

Kevin

Claudia Bullock and Haim Katz - Hachoen Wartski,

What still needs to be done to fix the issue with R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav and Lifsha Helprin?

Kevin

Kevin Lawrence Hanit
Please, after you finish working on the Halperin family, lock the Master Profiles, otherwise these mistakes will come back and we will again have to go over all the branches of the Halperin family
thank you very very much
and thank to
Claudia Bullock

Kevin Lawrence Hanit
I will try to look for information tomorrow after work
Claudia Bullock
Maybe there is information in the unbroken chain?

Claudia Bullock
For Lifsha, I totally agree with you. I also don't remember my dad saying that name,

Haim Katz - Hachoen Wartski,

Which Master Profiles should I lock?

Kevin

Kevin Lawrence Hanit and Haim Katz - Hachoen Wartski,

With regard to R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav it seems clear to me that he was never married to Lifsha Helprin

For starters, I think that we need a good source for the children of her father
Rabbi Nathan Spira, The Megaleh Amukos

Currently the about section of his profile indicates that he had 7 children, but the profile itself has 12, so likely some extras and some duplication.

Anyway, I did find one source which lists 8 children, one of whom is a Lifsha Spira who died in 1731, and says that she was married to Menachem Mendl ABD Halosk, and that his father was Benyamin Medl. No children are listed. I don't know whether or not this information is correct, but here is where I found it:

https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~prohel/genealogy/names/loew/spira/s...

Claudia

p.s. The children of Rabbi Nathan Spira, The Megaleh Amukos are not listed in the Unbroken Chain. R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav is in the Unbroken Chain, but since Lifsha Helprin was not his wife I don't have any information on her.

Claudia Bullock,

I've cut her and her children away from R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav.

Kevin

Hi Claudia Bullock
Thanks for your message.

There is a big confusion, and i hope we can sort it out...

Kevin Lawrence Hanit
From a quick look, the family tree looks right, now after you cut lifsha from the tree.
Maybe there is information about her at
The Jacobi Papers - IIJG

Claudia Bullock
btw
Naftali Wakstein wrote to me now, indeed you and I were right the name I wrote to you is not my great grandfather. And I have to keep looking for information

According to my info, which I got from a tree developed in conjunction with the Halpern and Branches project at FTDNA, Lifsha is married to another Ysroel Halpern (who is not the R' Israel Charif Halpern mentioned above). This other Ysroel is the son of Rabbi Eliezer Lipman Ashkenazi-Halperin, A.B.D. Tiktin. However on the GENI tree this Eliezer, ABD Tiktin only has one son, Moshe. According to my into Eliezer ABD Tiktin should have 7 children with Margela Schor and three more with Sara Luria. I'm not sure what has happened to the other children of Eliezer ABD Tiktin.

I am bringing in Private User who (if it is the same person) is the administrator of the 'Halpern and Branches' project at FTDNA (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/halpern/about), and may be able to provide some insight here.

Kevin Lawrence Hanit
For your question, what profiles to lock, I suggest that each master profile belongs to the Halperin family.

Private User,

Adam,
Based on the following chart from Edward Gelles, it would appear to me that the following profile should be the correct Eliezer, who was the father of Israel who married Lifsha, the daughter of Natan Nata Shapiro (1585-1633):

http://archives.balliol.ox.ac.uk/Modern%20Papers/gelles/2017Metz.pdf

R' Eliezer Lipman Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv

The chart above is an updated version of the one that appeared on Lifsha's profile (the one that got disconnected from R' Israel Charif Halprin mentioned above). Here is a link to her profile, where you can see that in the original chart from 2009 Lifsha was listed as an unknown daughter who married Israel, while the updated chart shows her name as Lifsha:
Lifsha Helprin#

Edward Gelles appears to be a published genealogist who claims descent from Israel and Lifsha through a son named Shmuel Helman, ABD Mannheim and Metz.

Claudia

Private User,

To clarify further, the reason I am saying that R' Eliezer Lipman Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv looks like the correct profile is because he is son of R' Avraham Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv son of R' Moshe Heilprin (Maharsha father-in-law) son of Rabbi Zevulun Eliezer Heilprin and so all of Eliezers ancestors in Geni match up with what is in that chart.

Claudia

That part of the Geller tree looks okay to me, but this is where things get tricky because remember that Lipshitz tree by Rabbi Shlomo Englard (Bnei Brak, Israel) (https://www.davidicdynasty.org/lipshitz/)? That one shows Avraham ben Moshe having a son Eliezer Lipman from the daughter of Yechiel Michel Halevi Epstein. I'm not sure whether that Epstein daughter is a mistake (and what he meant was actually Lucia bat K'bogen, which would affect the Lipshitz tree considerably) or whether there are two spouses of Moshe (Eidel and Lusia, and therefore also two Eliezer Lpiman ben Moshes). At the moment, since bat Epstheyn does not appear as a spouse of Moshe on the GENI tree does this mean that this part of the R' Englard tree has been discredited? NB: The rest of the R' Englard tree seems to be quite accurate, however.

As for which profiles to curate, I would propose that each of the Eliezer Lipman Heilprins be curated (I see 8 of these from the same time period) because it is too easy to mistake any one of these for another.

Private User,

I'm having a lot of trouble following your logic. I don't see any daughter of Epstein being a spouse of Moshe on the chart you linked to. It shows a daughter of Epstein being a spouse of Avraham ben Moshe. I am totally lost now.

As far as the 8 Eliezer's you've identified which might be confused with each other, I suspect that perhaps some of them might not even be from the same time period, and yet could still possibly be confused with each other as a result of being from or serving as ABD in the same location as their ancestor, especially when birth and death dates are unknown, erroneous, or are missing from profiles. I'm just thinking out loud here.

Claudia

My apologies Claudia, a couple of sentences are messed up in there. Here is the correction: "I'm not sure whether that Epstein daughter is a mistake (and what he meant is actually Lusia bat K'bogen, which would affect the Lipshitz tree considerably) or whether there are two spouses of Avraham ben Moshe (bat Epshteyn and Lusia, and therefore also two Eliezer Lipman ben Avrahams). At the moment, since bat Epstheyn does not appear as a spouse of Avraham ben Moshe on the GENI tree does this mean that this part of the R' Englard tree has been discredited?"

The 8 Eliezers are all from the same century (and since YOBs are often calculated or estimated, it is difficult to say with certainty how much overlap there is in each case). Here is the list (there are nine if you include one Eliezer Heilprin without the Lipman) with approximate YOBs (in no particular order):

1) R' Eliezer "Lezer Charif" Heilprin, of Miedzyrzec and Fürth bca1650
2) Rabbi Eliezer Lipman Ashkenazi-Halperin, A.B.D. Tiktin bca 1579
3) R' Eliezer Lipman Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv bca1595
4) Eliezer Lipman Heilprin https://www.davidicdynasty.org/lipshitz/ bca 1605
5) Eliezer Lipman Heilprin https://www.davidicdynasty.org/lipshitz/ bca 1650
6) Rabbi Eliezer Lippman Heilprin, A.B.D. of Tarnogrod bca 1630
7) Eliezer Lipman Heilprin (is another son of the Ysroel Heilprin and Lifsha shown on the Geller Tree; source: Halpern and Branches Project Tree) bca 1670
8) R' Eliezer Lipman Halpern of Medzibeh bca 1705
9) R' Eliezer Lipman Halpern of Stanislaw bca 1720
9) R' Eliezer Lipman Halpern of Medzibeh bca 1705

Ideally what could happen with this tree is if someone who has worked on the tree from the Halpern and Branches Project might step up to curate most, if not all, of these profiles, but I don't know how to make such a thing happen. For now, I suppose these commentaries will at least advise caution to those attempting to rely on these branches.

Please ignore the duplicate #9.

Private User,

All of the Eliezer's listed in your previous reply with links to their respective profiles have been Mastered. I just need you to write for me a Curator Comment for each of them.

I will then update each MP to include it. The note can be as specific as you want for each one, but it must be under 255 characters in length.

Kevin

Thanks Kevin. Can you point me to an example of what a curator comment should include?

Private User,

It's totally up to you as to what you want to put into it.

I would put something in each one that references the fact that they are all different as well as making reference to not merge with a profile of the same name.

Here's an example of where we had to make a cut in the tree: R' Zvi Hirsch Apter, Parnas of Kalisz community

I can't find the ones about not merging with a profile of the same name, but they are out there.

Kevin

This to invite Private to the discussion, who may be able to shed some light on my comment of 9:25pm on 19 Jan 2020 (as corrected in the first paragraph of my comment of 10:48am on 20 Jan 2020).

Kevin Lawrence Hanit Here is a 233 character blurb that I think would be appropriate for each of the EL Heilprins now MP-d: "Within a span of about 125 years appear 8-9 Eliezer Lipman Heilprins, within the proximate tree. To prevent possible confusion, all present and future EL Heilprins in this area are being protected as Master Profiles. Modifications or mergers must now pass through the Curator." If you want to edit this blurb, please feel free to do so.

Kevin Lawrence Hanit,

Even though Lifsha has been removed, there are still a couple of problems with the profile for R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav

First off, the featured document for this profile seems to be for the wrong Israel, i.e. the Israel who Private User told us about who was married to a Lifsha. The document refers to an Israel Heilpern of Krotoszyn who had 2 sons, the 2nd of which was Shmuel Hilman Heilprin who became Rabbi of Metz, where he died in 1763. R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav had more than 2 sons, and none of them were named Shmuel.

So.... it looks like there were 2 different R' Israel Halpern/Heilprin's who were both from Krotoszyn, and we have to be careful not to confuse them. We should start by removing the incorrect documentation from the profile of R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav

The 2nd problem with the profile is that according to UC, he had 10 children, and all are there with the exception of G8.8 Wife of R. Jacob, son of Joseph of Ostrog, and G8.10 Wife of R. Saul, ABD Berestechko (see page 38 of Chapter 6 in The Unbroken Chain). I'm a little puzzled about what happened to them, and if they were purposely removed for some reason. I looked at the Revision tab, and it appears as though you added them on Friday, and yet they are not there (?).

Claudia

Claudia Bullock Kevin Lawrence Hanit Quick addendum: the other document on the R' Israel Charif Halpern, ABD Zaslaz, a tree prepared by Gelles in 2009, also belongs with the other Israel Heilprin (the one who married Lifsha)., which raises the other issue: Lifsha's husband needs to be added to the GENI tree (or found if already there). Lifsha's husband is the son of this Eliezer :Lipman Heilprin: R' Eliezer Lipman Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv The source for this is the Gelles tree of 2017 which Claudia posted on this thread 19JAN at 2:07pm.