Anastasia Irene Maria Monomachos of Byzantium MONOMAHINYA - Parents Identity of Anastasia Irene Maria Monomachos of Byzantium MONOMAHINYA

About the seal:

Oikonomides, Nicolas. “St. George of Mangana, Maria Skleraina, and the ‘Malyj Sion’ of Novgorod.” Dumbarton Oaks Papers, 34/35, 1980, pp. 239–246. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/1291453. Accessed 12 Jan. 2021.

About Maria Skleraina, maybe depicted as a dancing person:

https://cushareejournal.wordpress.com/2019/05/15/a-medieval-helen-t...

(Additional sources where she is discussed also listed)

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Wasn’t there supposed to have been a connection between the Skelos family and Kiev?

BTW - Maria was a widow. Did she have children previously?

http://www.rupertwilloughby.co.uk/wild-swimming/constantine-ix-mono...

“ At the time of his banishment in 1035, Constantine had recently been widowed for the second time. There was no hope of his remarrying. He had, however, fallen madly in love with his late wife’s niece, Maria Skleraina, a young widow herself, who had been taken into their household. The normally discreet Maria had been inveigled into a ‘highly improper association’ and had elected to share Constantine’s exile on Mytilene (which was considered a cruel fate indeed for a Constantinopolitan). On their way out, some monks of the neighbouring island of Chios had prophesied Constantine’s eventual return to the capital, not in disgrace but as emperor (Cheynet, pp.46, 56-70). It had given Maria hope that they would one day be able to marry. For an emperor, surely anything was possible. ...”

“ It is stated in the Russian Primary Chronicle that Vsevelod I, Grand Prince of Kiev, was married by 1053 to ‘a Greek princess’. Their eldest child, born in that year, was the future Vladimir I, surnamed ‘Monomakh’, who is assumed, therefore, to have been a relative, if not the grandson, of Constantine IX. A further suggestion is that the mother of the unfortunate ‘princess’ was Maria Skleraina. The evidence in the matter is inconclusive, but the bride sent to Russia appears also to have been called Maria (for the seal has been discovered there of the ‘all-high-born Maria Monomacha’), and Byzantine children were never named after their parents. In any case, Psellos would surely have mentioned it if there had been a child. Moreover, although he describes Constantine as the last of his line, the Emperor certainly had a first cousin, Theodosios Monomachos, who survived him and indeed aspired to the throne after his death (Cheynet, p.67); Vsevelod’s bride could have been the sister, daughter or niece of this Theodosios. (For an assessment of all the evidence, see Rupert Willoughby, ‘The Golden Line’, Genealogists’ Magazine, XXIII (March and June 1991), pp.321-7, 369-72.)”

Rupert Willoughby was mentioned in another source as a scholar on this topic, here’s his page:

http://www.rupertwilloughby.co.uk/

See page 10-11 for a bibliography of relevant genealogy sources.

https://www.donstonetech.com/Marshall_Kirk_on_Ancient_Genealogy_199...

Erica Howton
wrote
BTW - Maria was a widow. Did she have children previously?

You seem to turn every stone around to dismiss that Vladimir II Monomach had a mother that passed her fathers name on to him, are you trying to claim that this mother was adopted and change her name to her fathers or what?

Give it up, history point in one direction, you made the wrongly cut, now eat it up and feel ashamed!

Private User Why don’t you consult with Rupert Willoughby, who seems quite reachable? He’s among the historians who say “inconclusive.”

http://www.rupertwilloughby.co.uk/category/byzantine-genealogy/

Constantine in gratitude to the Chian monks also founded the Nea Mone (‘New Monastery’) on the island (pictured left). It is now deserted, but I remember on a visit in October 1991 seeing a small psalter or prayer-book that is supposed to have belonged to him. Moreover, there are through Vladimir Monomakh – whose many descendants include Edward II’s queen Isabella of France – countless people in the West who can, with some confidence, claim Constantine IX Monomachos as a kinsman – if not as a direct ancestor.

Comments Off on Constantine IX Monomachos, Zoe Porphyrogennete and Maria Skleraina: An Imperial Ménage à Trois. »

Erica Howton The relation in these family is not only possible, plausible, it's the only logical solution. If you want to destroy it by claiming doubts by inventing a lots of "what about", or "If", then it's up to you to do so, but what made you into the one to have the final word about it, nothing!

I don’t have the final word, of course. Actually, I don’t think there is much of that in genealogy, is there? This is about uncertainty and likelihood in parentage, and based on the cases presented by the historians - not by me, not by you.

Also, I didn’t introduce the doubt. It’s been published at Medlands and most of the Wikipedia’s for years ... or since Psellos.

"most of the Wikipedia’s for years" What is most, is it the english wiki only?

Swedish wiki, no much doubts
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_II_Monomach

Russian wiki, no doubts
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%...

English wiki, claims some unknown relative to the emperor Constantine, without direction to any source by footnotes. (Did you write that?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_II_Monomakh

French wiki, no doubts.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_II_Monomaque

German wiki, no doubts at all.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wladimir_Wsewolodowitsch_Monomach

Arabian wiki, no doubts.
https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%81%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AF%D9%8A%D9%85%...

The Greek wiki of Vsevolod has no doubts either:
https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Βσέβολοντ_Α΄_του_Κιέβου
Αναστασία, κόρη του Κωνσταντίνου Θ΄ Μονομάχου
means: 'daughter of Constantine IX Monomachos' and nothing else.
7 sources added in the article.

This is the Medlands entry, no Greek citations of Psellos...
https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/BYZANTIUM.htm#_Toc1905668

Erica Howton I saw that you uploaded this document, https://media.geni.com/p13/a9/fb/ba/b6/5344485d91c7a0ec/fam6694_ori...
but still can't attach this profile Monomakhina parents as they are described in the text.

Why upload something you don't personally believe in and constantly rejects?

I am trying to represent differing conclusions fairly.

On the language wikis, since perhaps most relevantly, it’s Russia’s history (descent), I see in translation:

Russia:

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B0%...

Chronicle calls the wife of Vsevolod "Greek queen", "monomakh", "Greek" [6] , but does not name her name and origin. She and her marriage are not mentioned in Byzantine sources. Undoubtedly, she belonged to the Monomakh family, since this nickname was inherited by her son, and also because it was a representative of this family that ruled the empire in the year of her marriage [7] .

It is not known exactly who her parents were. It is indicated that Emperor Constantine IX Monomakh was her relative, possibly her father, since his family was generally extremely small. ...

Ukraine:

https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%96%D1%8F-%D0%90...

According to Leontiy Voitovych, she was the daughter of Konstantin Monomakh from his first marriage to Olena Sklirina, before he became emperor. Researcher L. Makhnovets believes that Monomakh married his mistress Maria Sklirina (Elena Sklirina's cousin) after the death of Empress Zoe. Later Maria-Anastasia was born. There are also debates among scientists about the name. According to her own seal, her name was Maria, and according to the Vydubychi monument - Anastasia. Perhaps one of the names is a monk (before her death, the princess could accept monasticism, as was then practiced).

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Bulgarian:

https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%...

According to another opinion, in 1046 Vsevolod married not the emperor's daughter, but his more distant relative. Her name and history are not known, but in the literature, she is often present as Maria [1]., Anna or Irina [2] . Probably the opinion that the Grand Duchess of Kiev became Anastasia Monomakhina is based on the fact that the name Anastasia is mentioned in the synod of the Vidubitsky Monastery in Kiev .

Re Medlands, Psellos is footnoted extensively.

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/BYZANTIUM.htm#_ftnref1669

Example: He was crowned 12 Jun 1042 as Emperor KONSTANTINOS IX. He started his reign with another flush of largesse, which exhausted his treasury[1659].

[1659] Psellos, p. 170.

But read the Psellos, it’s fun.

Greek Wikipedia, Constantine article

https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%9A%CF%89%CE%BD%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B1%...

She had two wives, whose names are unknown to us.

After Constantine he married a Life of Macedonians , daughter of Constantine Emperor of the Romans. He had no descendants.

Constantine IX had two mistresses: Maria Sklyraina and Irene of the Bagratids, daughter of Prince Demetrius of Armenia.

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As already noted, French & Russian Wikipedia’s seem most complete.

Is anyone interested in adding more Constantine family details?

See https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantin_IX

Family

Constantine 1 was born in Antioch 2 , son of Theodosius Monomachos, judge and important bureaucrat under Basil II and Constantine VIII , from a noble Byzantine family. He has two sisters, Helene Monomachus (around 1003 -to 1050 ) and Euprépie Monomachus (circa 1010 -after 1055 ). ....

What we also see in the Wikis is that Vsevolod claims Constantine as grandfather, but Constantine doesn’t necessarily have a grandson. :) (comparing the two articles even in the same language wiki - which demonstrates different editors, I would think).

I uploaded a translation of the Russian Primary Source. I’m still learning about it, but I gather that one the versions is hagiography celebrating Vsevolod.

Here’s the Primary Chronicle page and also the footnotes page.

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000170613678030

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000170604507840

So if her name was in fact Maria, apparently she could not have had a mother Maria. If she were legitimate from the unknown 1st wife or Eléna, she would (I think) been clearly presented in the Byzantine sources. Seems unlikely from the last mistress. So are we at a “mother unknown” consensus?

..or a blinded and exiled grandfather?
(Basileos Skleros, Magistros ;)

Yes. If not Maria’s daughter, I am puzzled at the Skleros connection to Kiev Rus.

I was just looking at the myth making around her son.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320477021_Roman_and_Byzant...

Page 258, footnote 28.

In 1046 Yaroslav the Wise married arelative, possibly a daughter, of Byzantine Emperor Constantine IX Monomakhos, whose name according to the Byzantine sources was Maria or Anastasia. The couple had a son Vladimir who was born in 1053

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Picková, Dana. (2017). Roman and Byzantine Motifs in Сказаниe о князьях владимирских (The Tale of the Princes of Vladimir). AUC PHILOLOGICA. 2017. 253-267. 10.14712/24646830.2017.23.

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The article is 2017, probably the most recent reference I’ve seen.

I think this is the historian.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cs&u=https:...

It seems like you miss out something, the wife "Helena "Pulcheria" Skleraina" died around 1033, give or take one year, and after that she died he engaged in Maria Skleraina, around or after 1033, which better fits that the second wife, not the first, actually was the mother of the greek princess, ( born ca.1030/35)Anastasia, Maria, Irina, Theodora or Anna Monomakhina, (called Anstasia in the Vydubitsky monastery in Kiev). The marriage 1043, indicated someone to young to have children until 7 years after the wedding, son born 1053. Still to my surprise, you have that she was born ca. 1025 here on geni, Monomakhina which one of you added that date?

Olof Skötkonungs daughter Ingegärd, (change name to Irene in russian, later to Anna), married 1019, the son Vsevolod who married the greek princess was the fourth child in her marriage to Jaroslav, usually depicts as born 1030, and by that would not have any pwn children before his sexual maturity, 15+ old, which again suggest a marriage between two children 1043, not one adult woman, and an immature man, but two minors arranged as a peace treaty.

You can read whatever you want, but what I lack here is someone educated enough to actually understand and being able to draw the right conclusions, from the facts, from the history, and illustrate this accordingly already when setting up the profiles to begin with.

If you start out wrong, someone else need to correct it afterwards, and if no one is able to do that, then, thoose poorly created profiles leads you away from the truth instead of into it and this is what I see all the time, you may actually confirm you're own bias by looking at errors in the profiles that you unknowingly takes for acceptable and or valid.

I agree with you about her likely dating, and until I read Willoughby, that if she was Constantine’s daughter, most likely Maria was her mother.

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http://www.rupertwilloughby.co.uk/wild-swimming/constantine-ix-mono...

... A further suggestion is that the mother of the unfortunate ‘princess’ was Maria Skleraina. The evidence in the matter is inconclusive, but the bride sent to Russia appears also to have been called Maria (for the seal has been discovered there of the ‘all-high-born Maria Monomacha’), and Byzantine children were never named after their parents. ...

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And now we have another problem, because Maria & Constantine were in love, and it seems unlikely he got with anyone but Zoe (if that) until after her death in 1044.

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So either Maria wasn’t her name or Maria wasn’t her mother.

Now I must correct myself, betrothed 1043, married 1046 seems to be the right case here.
Still minors whatever.

Maria Skleraina lived with Constantine between 1033-1042, 1042 he married Zoë, she was likely 60 years plus when they married, unlees he really didn't know how to make children, or if he used some preventive method to avoid them, I would bet that Maria was the mother to his only daughter. I do believe that the english wiki is untrue, "Constantine married his relative Anastasia etc..." , because any relatives of him, (not children), would be too insignificant to pass as a princess. He was not from any emperial clan, became only emperor after marriage 1042, and I do not see how titles would be passed on to relatives, in such ways. The statement on the En.Wiki have not any sources.

Here’s the debate on her origins from medieval genealogists at the mail group, soc.gen.med

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/Tb6PZoTJX4o/m/...