Ifor ap Llewelyn - Correct Parents?

I hadn't gotten to this piece of the Welsh Genealogies yet, but I'm happy to segue.

What has happened is that a grandson has been put in place of his grandfather.

I will go fix things.

Thanks!

I have the line in as Bartrum gives it, but the dates are problematic.

Steven Mitchell Ferry -- do you know how Llewelyn ap Bleddri fits in as dates? It looks like some generations are missing from the old genealogies --- where does Wolcott put him?

Wolcott has not yet addressed him. The info in the About section is problematic. But based on a date for Ifor Bach of 1110, Ifor Bach's great granddaughter, Nest ferch Hywel Felyn, would be dated to c. 1210. Her husband Llewelyn ap Bleddri, would be expected around 1195, which would be more in keeping with the death date in Llewelyn's profile. However, Bleddri Latimer is at 1090, so this Llewelyn ap Bleddri could not be his son.

What are the pertinent Bartrum pages?

Sorry!

They are naturally in the same collection — Cydifor Fawr.

Llewelyn ap Bledri — https://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/handle/2160/5130/cydifor...

Llewelyn ab Ifor — https://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/handle/2160/5227/Cydifor...

If you'll visit Bartrum's Cydifor 1 (https://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/handle/2160/5209/Cydifor...) you'll notice 2 things. First, he combines two generations into Bleddri Latimer. Second, he assigns Llewelyn ap Bleddri to Gen 6, while Bleddri is at Gen 2. So even Bartrum knew something was amiss. Wolcott has stated that Bartrum was never specifically trying to accurately assign dates, but was more interested in establishing familial connection. It looks like Bartrum knew Llewelyn was descended from Bleddri, he just wasn't sure how.

That’s what it looks like indeed.

I think we need to cut Bledri off, lock down, and add explanatory note.

Anne Brannen and Steven Mitchell Ferry thanks for looking into this and sorting it out. I appreciate you!

You are quite welcome.

Debbie Gambrell You're welcome. It's what we do, even at the peril of lost sanity and domestic tranquility.

Anne Brannen Wolcott does chart a Rhydderch ap Bleddri Latimer, c. 1120, so I would suggest cutting Llewelyn from this line, with explanation.