Marmaduke Constable - Review parents needed

Started by Erica Howton on Monday, January 11, 2021
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1/11/2021 at 7:50 PM

Michael King Writes:

Managers of Marmaduke Constable,

I am contacting you about this profile: Marmaduke Constable

I would like the managers to take another look at the father of Marmaduke. There were several R\"Roberts" existing at this time, and I'm not sure we have the correct one. The age of his parents at his birth is a little worrying.

Firstly we have this discussion:

http://www.disnorge.no/slektsforum/viewtopic.php?t=7729

"For much of their history the Constables of Flamborough seem to have
been of little importance outside their immediate area. A rare example
of political involvement occurred at the beginning of the fourteenth
century, when Sir Robert [i] Constable (fl. 1313-1338/9), the eldest
son of Sir William [i] Constable (d. 1319), allied himself with
Thomas, earl of Lancaster. In 1313 Robert was among those pardoned for
his involvement in the death of the king's favourite Piers Gaveston in
the previous year and he was again associated with the earl in May
1321, when the local Bridlington chronicler noted him among the
northern gentry present at the earl's ‘parliament' at Pontefract. Like
many northerners, however, he later dissociated himself from the earl.
He was not present at the Sherburn meeting in the following month, and
in 1322 was given powers of array by the king. After that he appears
to have withdrawn from public affairs, and in October 1331 secured
exemption from office, although he was made an arrayer again early in
1333.

A partial explanation for Robert's withdrawal may have been his
chronic indebtedness. From 1317 until the mid-1330s he acknowledged
debts to a wide range of local merchants and clerics, as well as to
more influential figures. His financial position may have eased by
1338–9, when he bought a mill and pasture in Flamborough, but in terms
of public office the family remained eclipsed for a further decade.
Robert is not recorded after his purchase of the mill, but it is
unclear when he died or who succeeded him. His eldest son was probably
the Sir William [ii] Constable associated with him in the mid-1330s,
but there is no reference to the latter as head of the family, and he
was certainly dead by 1346 when Sir Marmaduke [i] Constable (d. 1378),
presumably William [ii]'s younger brother, was lord of Flamborough. By
1351 Marmaduke had the resources to undertake rebuilding at
Flamborough and obtained licence to crenellate the manor. Alongside
this suggestion of growing prosperity Marmaduke was taking on a larger
public role. In 1349 he was appointed an executor of Archbishop
Zouche, he was added to the commission of the peace in 1351, and was
sheriff of Yorkshire in 1360–62 and 1366–7. He was discharged as
commissioner in May 1370, which seems to mark the end of his public
career, although he did not die until 21 May 1378. His last months
were overshadowed by the murder of his kinsman John at
Holme-on-Spalding Moor in June 1377 by two men identified as the
cousins of the parson. There had been trouble there in 1365, when a
commission of oyer and terminer had been appointed to investigate
Marmaduke's complaint that the residents had attacked his manor house,
and John's death was perhaps linked with continuing local unrest. "

Secondly.,there is this profile: https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000006444097479

A continuation of the above discussion says:

"It was the marriage arranged by Robert [ii] for his son and heir, Sir
Marmaduke [ii] Constable (d. 1404), that was ultimately to secure for
the Constables their first major territorial gains, although this
could not have been foreseen at the time. Katherine Constable (d.
c.1404), Marmaduke's wife, the daughter of Robert Cumberworth of
Somerby, Lincolnshire, was not an heiress at the time of the marriage,
but her brother Thomas died childless in 1451, and Katherine's
grandson was his heir. Marmaduke died in summer 1404, when his heir,
Robert [iii], was a minor, and at least part of the family's lands
passed into the keeping of the king's esquire Thomas Strickland. When
Sir Robert [iii] Constable (d. 1441) regained possession is unknown.
He had married Agnes (d. in or after 1467), daughter of Sir William
Gascoigne, by 1422, for his heir, Robert [iv], was born on Easter day
1423. It was a marriage that brought links to an important duchy of
Lancaster dynasty, but it does not seem to have contributed much to
the Constables' standing in local affairs. It was Robert [iii]'s
kinsman and namesake of Barnby by Bossall (d. 1454) who was to hold
office in the duchy in the 1430s and 1440s. Robert of Flamborough made
his will in May 1441 and was dead by the middle of June, leaving two
sons (his heir, Robert [iv], and William [iii], who was to end his
career as subdean of York) and two daughters."

The father, Robert, of this Geni profile has no parents.

I think there are issues here that need to be re-visited

1/11/2021 at 7:51 PM

Anne Brannen any help would be appreciated.

1/12/2021 at 7:41 AM

Interesting. The dates clearly don't work -- but the Robert we have connected as the father has had, consistently, the same dates, so he's just fine.

This Marmaduke's birthdate was originally 1340, making him even less likely to be this Robert's son.

This is one of those families where the names get copiously reused. Looks to me like yes, this Marmaduke has a father named Robert, but not the Robert we have him attached to.

1/12/2021 at 8:44 AM

So what action should we take?

1/12/2021 at 8:52 AM

https://wc.rootsweb.com/trees/162642/I23056/marmaduke-constable/des...

Descendancy
1 Marmaduke Constable: B: ABT 1310. D: 1 JUN 1378
+ Joan la Zouche: B: ABT 1318. D: Deceased
2 Robert Constable: B: ABT 1340. D: BEF 8 JAN 1400/01
+ Margaret Skipwith: B: ABT 1340. D: AFT JAN 1400/01
3 Marmaduke Constable: B: ABT 1380. D: 1404
+ Katherine (Alice) Cumberworth: B: ABT 1380. D: ABT 1404
4 Robert Constable: B: ABT 1401. D: AFT 23 MAY 1441

1/12/2021 at 9:06 AM

Merged Roberts - does it look better now?

Sir Robert Constable

1/12/2021 at 10:11 AM

Yes, though he has half siblings who are on a different time zone.

I have to go elsewhere for a bit, but I can work on this later, if you are tired of it!

anne

1/12/2021 at 10:25 AM

Yes, the 1-2 siblings have me totally confused.

1/12/2021 at 11:10 AM

Elizabeth de Grimthorpe Looks like the Time traveler - I made a new 2nd wife of Marmaduke

Elizabeth Constable

Sir William Constable Has bad dates and possibly wrong wife and deceptive Visitation.

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000021356323410

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