Moritz Bernard Polack, under research - Correct parents

Think we have 2 different persons here. Occupation from Police to general dealer and then also : Mauritz Polack, school teacher and Secretary of the Robertson Management Board. Later he became a ship owner.
Some other source state Moritz Polack the first teacher of Robertson.

That is whey he is under research.

Wilma Greyling (Basson) - unavailable for the next month perhaps you can help here?

I think we all need to stay very cool and calm here - as there is now a lot happening here on the Polack/Kaltwasser lines. Kindly remember the weird dubble capital $ sign in High German is also written as a weird looking double ff in the old times. So - Kaltwasser is not Kaltwaffser. I believe this profile is actually Mauritsz Bernard Polack, not Moritz. I will try my best to source docs and in the mean time, please see what I have done. I have merged and fixed names etc in a few Polack profiles and placed docs as I got them. Let's see how things are looking tomorrow , with fresh eyes! Thanks all, appreciate!

Plz if you see any mistakes - I am always happy to work with you, to fix things. Thnx.

Still no definite source for his father as Benedictus Polack.
maybe add note to this effect to his profile

I'm happy to MP and add a Curator Note - but I'm only adding the sourced info into that.

as per DN

Mauritz Bernard Polack (c 1841, Amsterdam or London - d 29 April 1872, SA)
so Bernard Andrew Polack & Antonetta Maria

Let me know what wife and children you want me to add from DN or other docs.

Have been adding info and sources but Wilma doing most of the work here.
When all done and dusted >>> MP and Curate please.

Call me back here when you know

Think still a lot of unknowns here with him and his wife .
Definitely more time and more input needed.

I am wondering about his parents and his birthplace and birthdate. According to his death notice his birthplace was Amsterdam and birthdate 1841

Wasn't there an issue that there was no record of this birth in Amsterdam - or am I misremembering?

But his DN stares Amsterdam ,Holland and from what I can see on any other profile on GENI that stands as a fact until proven different from another earlier source.
Regardles that I may not find proof of Amsterdam Holland , if a legal DN says place of birth that is the legal FACT.

Who has found any source that proves Benedictus Polack is actually the exaxt same person as Bernard Andrew Polack as on DN of Mauritz Bernard Polack. Died 1872 .

I'm good to have it as Amsterdam. The DN is the most verifiable source we have so far.

Amsterdam and a good explanation on his profile that no proof other than his DN and a publication for place of birth as Amsterdam yet.
What about Benedictus Polack = Bernard Andries Polack as his father ?
What source substantiates this claim ?

post links

Monday ?

Facts and sources .
From his DN
Place of birth ,date of death , place of death . names of parents , names of children
For those that does not understand about Death Notices : a DN is a legal document and any information on it is accepted as fact and true.
The name of his father on his DN is not Benedictus Polack.
A DN is not just a publication .
No one has to find any source to sisprove a fact or information on GENI but anyone and everyone has to find a souce to proof a fact or information on a profile on GENI.
And a lecture on the meaning of names and possible conjecture or supposition is not a source.

I have found John son of John and Catharine born 1789 in London 3 diffrent ones --so ?

As for place of birth on a DN.
Need I quote more than 1000 profiles here on GENI where the place of birth is according to information as on the DN.
Anyone that has done research with genealogy knows that , not just my opinion.
Yes often those present as witnesses at a death do not know all the info exactly, why unknown appear often on a DN.
Legally the information given by those present at death is FACT until proven diffrent by another legal document or source and not a possible conjecture or guesswork.
No need forme or anyone to prove a FACT on a DN but a source might confirm or disprove a fact.
Until that source is found the DN is the fact .
Maybe some here are not aware of that.

I do not see London as a place of birth for Mauritz Bernard Polack on any document or source.
I do not see a father named Benedictus Polack on any document or source as well.
I do not need or anyone else for that matter need to find a source to disprove this claim ; a source to prove or substantiate these claims or parent must be found ( by anyone )and presented .
If no such source can be given as proof , then the information and parent must be removed.

Benjamin Polak

------------------------
Discussion

Benjamin Polak#/tab/discussion

rvk
6/2/2021 at 3:17 PM

Hello Phillipp,

Just to be clear on this:
Of course a DN is a valuable, and many times the only, source of information !
All I'm saying -and this is based on a lot of research- is that the information is sometimes incorrect, particularly if a person had come from elsewhere or if his close relatives had already passed away.
In this case it is claimed that he was born in Amsterdam, but such a record can't be found in Amsterdam.
Sooo many times, usually in the US, it is claimed that a migrant was born in Amsterdam, or even Germany, when in fact "Holland" was meant.

What else is claimed in his DN?
That he was the son of Bernard Andrew Polack and Antonetta Maria, surname unknwon, and that one of his minor children was Mauritz Bernard.
(Remarkable: they gave Amsterdam has his PoB but they didn't know the name of his mother...)

Mauritz had a sister Harriet. It says she was born in 1827 in London and that her parents were Bernard Andries Polack and Annetta (not Arietta) de Solla.
Can we agree that Antonetta Maria and Annetta are one and the same person?

So who was Bernard Andries, or Andrew, Polack, or Polak?
I think he was Benedictus Polak (1783 Rotterdam-1832 Rotterdam)
Why?
Because Benedictus usually is the same as Bendit or Baruch or Bernard or Barend. Remember a secular name is just a "translation" of a Hebrew name. On top of that a name in English may not be the same as in Dutch (Barnett / Barend for example)
And because Benedictus was a son of Andries (Andrew in English).
(Research question for you:
How many Bernard or Benedictus, son of Andries, Polak were in living in the Netherlands around 1820?
Benedictus married (at the time rather unusual) a non-jewish woman (of Amsterdam) in 1815 in Rotterdam and they had several children who all died young, except one, who later changed his name from Polak to one including his mother's family name, De Ruijter. Perhaps because his father had deserted his mother?.

Maurits and Harriet's mother was not the one who lived in Rotterdam. She lived in London.
Because of this I think it's safe to assume that Maurits, like his sister, was born in London, not Amsterdam nor Rotterdam.
The DoBs would fit, because Bernard / Benedictus' last child in Rotterdam was born in 1822,

What else is claimed?
That the family (or B only?) moved between Amsterdam (or the Netherlands) and London (any proof of this?).
That B died in the 1830s in London (proof?)
That he left behind his wife and daughter unprovided for (someone said B was accused of child abuse?)

So B deserted his wife in Rotterdam and went to live with another woman in London (is there a marriage record in London?) and had children with her.
He indeed died in the 1830s, but in Rotterdam, not in London.

Kind rgds
Ray

As Ray also states here no proof of Benedictus Polak as father of Mauritz Bernard Polack

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:ZH94-J12M

Who might this be ? Relatives ?

Benedictus Polak died 1932

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLXV-43S4

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L937-NSTL-6?i=419&...

Not our Bernard Polack I would presume ?

Is this our Bernard Polak with yet another wife like his father?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M86L-95W

O wait born in Holland or Germany or New York circa 1820 /1822?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCWW-1SZ