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Isabel Plantagenet - Husband?

Started by Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert on Tuesday, August 17, 2021
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Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert C
8/17/2021 at 6:06 AM

Hello,

I was wondering if we could get some sources for the husband currently attached to Isabel Plantagenet, Prioress of Amesbury The curator note says she got married, but who was the husband? I am pretty sure that Roger/Rutger de Flor (son of the Italian mercenary Roger de Flor ) is fictitious.

Medlands has this to say: "ISABEL ([1317]-after 1 Feb 1347). Weir names “Isabella...born in c. 1317 and perhaps married Henry de la Dale in her youth. She became a nun at Amesbury Abbey, Wiltshire, beefore 6 Apr 1337, and was elected Prioress of Amesbury before 23 Mar 1344. She died after 1 Feb 1347” as the daughter of Henry Earl of Lancaster[1026]. The primary sources on which this information is based have not been identified. Nun at Amesbury Abbey, Wiltshire before 6 Apr 1337, elected Prioress of Amesbury before 23 Mar 1344."

Thanks,
Tamas
Anne Brannen C
8/17/2021 at 7:58 AM

Working from below, Roger Flower/Flore is very well attested, having been a politician -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Flower -- and his father, William Flower of Oakham, is in most of the online pages about Roger -- but what I'm seeing is that William Flower is given as the head of the Flower line, and I'm not seeing anything about his antecedents.

So the Flower line begins here -- Sir William Flore

the Roger Flor who is standing now as the father of the Roger Flor in question is not showing up in the online pages for Roger de Flor the pretty famous Italian -- I haven't seen anything that gives his children, or any sort of wife or partner.

So, yes, I think we should detach the son Roger de Flor from both his father and his wife, and I can change the curators notes for Isabella -- she was a prioress, but there's no evidence for earlier marriage.

and! How I wish I had put where I got that into the profile. But I gather that I was disentagling the two sisters, and not at the time worrying about what the surviving Isabella was doing with the rest of her life.

Thanks for catching this.
Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert C
8/17/2021 at 9:19 AM

Thanks Anne Brannen!

I cleaned up some of the descendants of Sir William Flore a bit. The generations had gotten all messed from of some bad merges.

Roger/Rutger de Flor has been cut from his "relatives" and isolated and the relationships for Roger de Flor and his family locked.

The last question is Elena Radcliffe wife of Sir William Flore I am not seeing William's wife as the daughter of Richard de Radcliffe, of Winmarleigh and Isabella de Radcliffe anywhere. Elena Radcliffe's profile has lots of notes in it, but none of them mention a William Flore. I suspect someone mistakenly conflated Elena Radcliffe with Elena, wife of William Flore, because they were both named Elena.
Anne Brannen C
8/17/2021 at 9:31 AM

No -- I saw her showing up as "his wife Helena" or "his wife Elena" - nothing about her ancestry.
Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert C
8/18/2021 at 11:40 AM

I cut Elena Radcliffe out of the Flore family and added Elena Flore as the wife of Sir William, with notes not to confuse them.

Private User
3/17/2022 at 10:30 PM

I lost the thread but Isabel of France was ALSO called Isabel Plantagenet because her husband was a Plantagenet- causing some confusion. Was said that she and Roger Mortimer had a child whose name was William. Roger Mortimer may be Roger de Flor II who was Roger de Flor's son by Maria Assina. She took him with her when she went with her second husband Ferdinand Jiimenez D'Renos to Valencia in Spain. No mention of him afterward. Was he sent to Brindisi to his family or to England and given a guardian and given title for doing some favor beginning the Flower liniage. Flors (Fleury} began initially in France and migrated to England for religious purposes - because they were involved with Cathars and would have to flee the French Inquisition. Flors met some English women in Italy.

Just adding some thoughts that I ran into while trying to untangle the same historic problems and dead ends you are

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