Relationship Algorithm Bug?

P.S. It also says "No in-law relationship was found." for this pair.

So weird - Does anyone know how Rosenberg became Bloom? I think they consider it a blood relation based on the common descendent Melvin, eventhough I wouldn't consider it one.

Golda

I haven't looked into the surname issue yet.

As for blood relation based on common descendants, I don't think that explains it. My father and my mother-in-law have no blood relationship, per Geni, despite sharing a grandchild.

Private User - re: "Shortest Blood Relationship" -- Herbert (Herzl) Bloom is Sarah Rivka Colitz Gibberman's second great nephew's great uncle.

I do not see a bug.
The path does not go thru a marriage.
They are all blood kin. - daughter, son, father, brother -- all are blood relationships
Why are you thinking it is a non-blood relationship??. it is a blood relationship.
Visually, it is clear because when you expand the path, every profile is blue. When it goes thru a marriage (or partnership) the color changes

Two thoughts on this, Private User

1) I would define "blood relatives" as people who share common ancestors, and I thought that this understanding was widespread.

While Sarah Rivka Colitz is a blood relative of Melvin R. Bloom (i.e., they share common ancestors), and Herbert (Herzl) Bloom is a blood relative of Melvin R. Bloom (i.e., they share common ancestors), Sarah Rivka Colitz and Herbert (Herzl) Bloom do not share common ancestors (at least, none in evidence here). Thus, they are not blood relatives.

Their relationship is indeed through the marriage of Sylvia Anne Colitz and Samuel Bloom (which produced a son, Melvin -- whose birth did not suddenly make Sylvia and Samuel into each other's blood relatives, at least as I understand the term).

2. Let's assume, now, that my definition of blood relatives is incorrect or not the one used here. In that case, Geni's algorithm is inconsistent.

If sharing a descendant in common is sufficient to make people blood relatives, then Geni should find a "blood relationship" path between my father and my mother-in-law because they share a grandchild.

The path would be essentially equivalent to the one I am questioning above: my dad > his daughter (me) > her son > his father (my husband) > his mother (my MIL).

But Geni (correctly, in my opinion!) only finds an in-law path between them (my dad > me > my husband > his mom) because my child's birth didn't make my dad and my husband's mom into blood relatives.

Sylvia Anne Simon is the Sylvia in the path
Samuel Bloom i- ID 6000000178929570823 -
is the Samuel in the path -- He is NOT, at least currently, the spouse or partner or ex-spouse or etc. of Sylvia --

Samuel Bloom -- ID 6000000006951591066 - is the Samuel who is the father of Melvin and the spouse of Sylvia
Sylvia and both Samuels are currently all three the parents of Melvin.

I have seen this sort of blood path on Geni many times
I do not know the exact programming of Geni's algorithm, but it seems it does check when it goes down to child that it is not coming up to the spouse (or or ex or etc) of the parent it went down from - which is why you do not see a "blood relationship" path between your father and your mother-in-law even tho they share a grandchild.

If you do not want to see "blood paths" like that, do not leave unmerged duplicates like that

On the other hand -- Not sure, but think it does count blood path thru adopted and foster parents, not just biological parents. Or at least it was. Which I saw being objected to vigorously by others.

Thanks for your feedback, Private User

Yes, I am aware of the duplicates, and haven't merged for the reason stated above. I hope we can resolve the surname issue and merge or fix the two Samuels as appropriate. If that fixes the problem (if it is indeed a problem), great!

But even so, this type of path defies the conventional (I think?!) definition of "blood relatives". To me, it seems that this is not a blood relationship between the people at the endpoints of the path. Whether or not Samuel Bloom was Sylvia's spouse is irrelevant because Sarah Rivka Colitz and Herman Bloom do not share common ancestors known to Geni.

Perhaps this is what the programmers intended, but to me it looks like an error.

Yes, I can see why there was a conflict between people who are strictly interested in biological "bloodlines" vs. those who honor adoptive parents (and their families) as ancestors. I am actually more in the latter camp, despite my position on the definition of "blood relatives", as my interest is as much in the history of how we all came to be who we are as it is in who actually shares DNA. ...Especially because so many of us have NPEs somewhere along the line that in the absence of compelling DNA evidence most of us are just guessing at our true "bloodlines".

Still, this going down the branch to a child and up the branch to a different ancestor and calling everyone in the path a blood relative seems strange to me.

Where are your DNA evidence for YDNA and/or mtDNA?

I was looking on my MYHeritage site, and hit Research on Herbert. I got several of the same Rosenberg trees but in a couple it shows that Herbert's wife is Rose Bloom (Potastik). Same children.

Probably just muddies the waters.

Mary's sisters were Sarah Cohen and Lillian Drosd. Mary and Sarah were not related to Rose Bloom (Potastik) mother. Mary Bloom's mom was Frieda Bloom.

Mitchell, is the Mary you are referring to above Mary "Merka" (MSB) Siegel

Yes, Lois, that's her.

As a postscript, I went ahead and merged the Samuels and that did indeed fix the path problem. Sarah Rivka Colitz and Herbert (Herzl) Bloom are no longer showing up as blood relatives (even though they still share a common descendant).

Yes, my grandmother OR great grandmother was Mary Siegel (Bloom).

I am a Drosd (Drust). This was a great discussion.

Thanks for cleaning up the Bloom connection.

Golda

Rose Edith London (Rosenberg) Wouldn't let me tag her.
She has two sets of parents: Jacob and Tova Rosenberg and/or Hirsh Rozaitsky and Bassi Rosenberg. Are they the same people?

Golda

Golda -- no, they're different; it looks like an old merge gone wrong. Rose Edith Rosenberg London's grave indicates that her father was Tzvi Hirsch (i.e., Hirsh Rozaitsky). I will correct the parents and try to clean up any associated errors. Thanks for pointing this out.

Lisa - I was going to ask about gravestones next.

Thanks

Sure thing!

Here's a link to Rose Edith Rosenberg London's grave: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/31944903/rose-e.-london

Besides the fact that the gravestone confirms that her father was Tzvi Hirsch, there's no way that someone born in 1861-1864 could be the daughter of a woman born in 1804, so we could rule out Toba Chaya Fine Rosenberg as her mother.

Here's another example where Geni gives a "blood relationship" path through both partners of a couple with a shared child: https://www.geni.com/path/Mitchell+is+related+to+Barry-Shemin?from=...

Many of the profiles are private and not within my family group, so I can't see where there may be unmerged duplicates, nor how to fix it.

I wonder if I should have started this discussion somewhere in the Help section...

I am still confused about Rose Potastik

Great grandmother Rose Potastik (Bloom)'s DNA matches- Leslie and Diane Elefson on AncestryDNA

If the tree in Geni is correct, then Rose Potastik Bloom's DNA should overlap some with Leslie because Leslie's a direct descendant.

Diane Elefson is shown (at least in Geni) as a step-descendant of Rose Potastik Bloom, so her DNA shouldn't necessarily overlap much with Rose. But if the tree is incorrect and Diane is a direct descendant (or other blood relative) of Rose Potastik instead of Frieda Kamm, we would expect greater overlap. Do trees in Ancestry have Diane as a descendant of Rose Potastik and Herzl Bloom or of Frieda Kamm and Herzl Bloom?

Of course, we can't test Rose Potastik Bloom's DNA directly because she's long gone. We can only make inferences based on the DNA of living blood relatives. And many people with Jewish ancestors share a little DNA on account of endogamy and not because they're close blood relatives.