Two John "Jack" Martins

Started by Susanne Floyd on Monday, October 18, 2021
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From "Need Help Merging Colonial Americans":

I just got a tree match for these two and don't think they are the same. Need a curator to look and maybe MP the other one and make sure not merged if possible. They seem too close for comfort. Any help appreciated. Thanks.

Lt. John ‘Jack’ “Rockhouse” Martin, Sr.

John 'Jack' Martin, Sr.

The wives and children/spouses of children don't match. However, someone has wrongly attributed the birth/death dates and location statistics of Lt. John 'Jack' Martin, Sr. onto the profile of Colonel John 'Jack' Martin, I

They even have the Find a Grave url of Lt. John at the top of Col. John's About. Nope, I think it needs better sourcing for Col. John, which is MPd right now. I think the dates/locations have been changed since the MP. Honest mistake, but not the same people, in my opinion.

In a wikipedia entry for son of Col. John, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Martin_(judge), it notes that Col. John died about 1800 or 1801. Here is a rather rambling Find a Grave that may have some benefit (or not) https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/221170824/joseph-john-martin as it calls him Joseph John Martin implying that he and his brother are the same.

I am not sure, but don't think they are the same and Col. John's profile needs work. I'm looking up what I can find.

From https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA296622.pdf on the son of Col. John - Judge John Martin, II Pages 21-35 give a pretty good account of the life of the son and relationship with father and uncle Brigadier General Joseph Martin, Jr.

The tow John "Jack" Martin profiles do not appear to be the same and need some work.

DAR Records for Lt. John "Jack" Martin

MARTIN, JOHN. Ancestor #: A074336

Service: NORTH CAROLINA Rank(s): LIEUTENANT

Birth: 1756 ESSEX CO VIRGINIA

Death: 4-5-1823 STOKES CO NORTH CAROLINA

Pension Number: *W4722

Service Source: *W4722

Service Description: 1) CAPTS CLOUD, PHILIPS, SMITH, HILL

2) COLS SHEPHERD, CLEVELAND, MARTIN, WILLIAMS

Wife noted in application as Nancy Shipp

Children with applications through DAR:

Mary Martin Bynum AKA Mary Polly Coalman Martin Bynum m. Hampton Bynum

Joseph Martin m. Christina Harmon Lyon

John Martin m. Nancy Perkins

George Martin m. Mary Wilson

Samuel Martin m. Ruth Penn
__________________________

Find a Grave for Lt. John "Jack" Martin

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/18194385/john-martin

From Find a Grave:

John married Nancy Shipp in 1784 and reared ten children. John died in 1822 and his wife, Nancy, died in 1841. They are both buried in a small family graveyard just below the Rock House, along with their son, William. For some reason the bible page (posted here on his memorial) and his wife's pension application both cite John's death year as 1823. However, John's will was dated May 10, 1821 and the probate of this will took place in 1822, so it would be impossible for him to have died in 1823. Reference: North Carolina Wills: A Testator Index, 1665-1900 by Thornton W. Mitchell @1992 page 326: Martin, John CO 90 [Stokes County], date c1821 Recorded WB 3/80 [Will Book 3, page 80] Original with a copy in the Archives. Pages 80 and 81 are also posted here on his memorial. The people listed in the will are: Nancy (wife), Poley C. Bynam & Elizabeth Harris (married daughters) and James, Joseph, John, Samuel, George, Thomas and William Gillam Martin (sons) and three grandchildren, John Martin Cloud, Maryann Cloud and Eliza Jerome Cloud; these were the children of John's daughter, Elizabeth, who married Jeremiah Cloud in 1810 and later married John Harris in 1817.

About the time Surry County was formed from Rowan in 1770, it has been said that a very young John Martin laid the foundation of the famed Rock House in what is now in western Stokes County. Since he was only fourteen years of age at that time, it is likely that the construction of the house began later; possibly as late as 1778. His marriage to Nancy Shipp in 1784 encouraged him to finish the house in 1785. The house has come to be known simply as the Rock House to the locals. A simple but tough design it has endured the elements for over two hundred years. In bad disrepair the Rock House ruins now stand as an enduring testament to the pioneer people who not only tamed and settled this region but fought and died for the freedom we enjoy today. The Rock House was four stories, including the basement and attic; had walls three feet thick; and a fireplace in the basement big enough to roast an ox. The outside of the house was covered with white stucco and could be seen for miles around. The house is now on the National Register of Historic Places. During the war years the Rock House was used as a fort against the Indians and Tories as well as the headquarters and a rallying point for the militia. You can still see the gun ports built into the walls. Captain John Martin earned the reputation of being a brave and couragous man. He did much to eliminate the Tory influence.

Somewhere along the way John became known as "Jack" and that is the name some remember him by today. Before the Rock House was completed John went to war from the old Surry County courthouse in Old Richmond as a Lieutenant in Captain Joseph Henry Smith's company with Rutherford against the Indians in 1776. He fought for several years against the Indians as well as the Tories in the western part of North Carolina. He served under Captains Smith, Minor, Phillips, and Robert Hill. He also served under Colonels William Cleveland, Shepard, and James Martin and frequently rode with Major Joseph Winston. John Martin was a member of the party that rescued Cleveland when the Tories, under Riddle, captured him at Old Fields. Later the party captured Riddle along with his son and another Tory. He fought with Colonel William Davidson to rout a band of loyalists under Colonel Bryan when they joined the British at Colson's mill. In 1781 when the Tories had their headquarters in a cave known as Tories Den, on the north side of the Sauratown mountains just south of the Rock House, John Martin, along with Joseph Cloud, Joshua Cox, and others under the command of Major Winston, attacked and killed all but one of the Tories. When the mountain men marched to meet Fergerson at King's Mountain, John Martin was in Cloud's company under the command of Cleveland. While scouting with Thomas Lankford both men were wounded and left for dead. Martin recovered enough to get to camp and another removed some of the shot from his head and he was sent home. He rejoined his company but the Battle of King's Mountain had already taken place. When the mountain men joined Greene in Feburary 1781, John Martin marched with Major Winston under the command of General Pickens. Martin was wounded at least two times while fighting the Tories and British and carried buckshot in his temple the rest of his life. He also proved to be a good citizen during peacetime as well. From 1788-1799 and again in 1811-1812 he served as a Stokes County State Representative to the General Assembly. He served for thirty years as a magistrate in the courts of Stokes County and was said to have a droll humor and keen wit.

No connection between these two John Martins, just a very common name. "Colonel" (no idea where this title came from, I've never seen it connected to him) John Martin was the son of Joseph Martin of Albemarle County, brother of General Joseph Martin. Father of Cherokee children by Susannah Emory and probably her sister Mary. Descendants of John Martin of Albemarle have done DNA tests and do not match descendants of the Rock House John.

Thanks Erica Howton and Kathryn Forbes I have worked on the profile of Nancy Ann Martin Do you think that you can MP that one, Erica Howton to avoid other issues with the other John's wives?

As per Kathryn Forbes, I have removed the erroneously connected Find a Grave "source" listed at the end of Col. John Martin and the sentence about him collecting rocks for Rock House as a teenager. I could not find a death location, but I suspect that "Rock House, Stokes County, NC should be removed from the death location field.

Page 22 https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA296622.pdf (an archeological study from the University of South Carolina) would seem to indicate that Col. John Martin died in Georgia or on the "Georgia - South Carolina line". Another item that might need to be changed, but I think a curator should change it and lock it. Erica Howton. Many thanks.

Susanne Floyd - done.

I think it is good to have the Revolutionary and the Pioneer with important Native ties sorted. Thanks Erica Howton. If I can find any more info on children of both, I will post it on profiles. The archeological study was pretty interesting.

John Martin, the brother of Gen. Joseph, died in the Cherokee Nation about 1800 based on the following letter. Nannie Martin (John's sister) married Jeter Lynch, a white man, about 1800; when John Calvin would have been eighteen. (John and Nannie's sister Rachel didn't marry until 1808, John Calvin married about the same time). Jeter is the brother-in-law mentioned below. Benjamin Cleveland wrote to Gov. Gilmer of Georgia in 1831 "I acknowledge the receipt of yours … requesting some information concerning the parentage of John Martin Treasurer of the Cherokee Nation... the father of John Martin was a native of Virginia the brother of Joseph Martin the first agent of the Cherokee Nation after the Revolution. I have been acquainted with John Martin since he was about ten years old. we went to school together when we were boys. he has been raised principally by a brother in Law who was a verry decent white man, Martin's father died when he was nearly grown." ( letter, Gen. Benjamin Cleveland to G.R. Gilmer, Clarkesville, 29th August 1831, transcript in Warren, Mary B. & Weeks, Eve, ed. ''Whites Among the Cherokees.'' Heritage Papers, Athens GA 1987. p. 93 ) T

That’s very interesting. It’s a little window into his life. Thanks!

Brigadier General Joseph Martin, Jr. is your third cousin 6 times removed.
You
→ Viet Nam War Veteran, SFC Freddie Ralph Hicks, Sr
your father → Viola Isabelle Hicks (Webber)
his mother → John Thomas Edgar Webber
her father → John Richard Carter Webber
his father → Samuel Webber
his father → Seth Ward Webber, Sr.
his father → Phillip Webber
his father → Phillip Webber
his father → William Webber
his father → Henry Webber, of St John's Parish
his brother → Eleanor Chiles (Webber)
his daughter → Susannah Martin (Chiles (Childs))
her daughter → Brigadier General Joseph Martin, Jr.
her son Consistency CheckShow short path | Share this path
Shortest in-law relationship
Brigadier General Joseph Martin, Jr. is your 7th great aunt's first cousin.
You
→ Geneive Melba Hicks (Emerson)
your mother → John Mac Emerson
her father → Elma Emerson (Swaim)
his mother → Sallie Edward Swaim (Utterback)
her mother → Martha Adeline Utterback (Curd)
her mother → Sarah "Sallie" Baker Curd (Martin)
her mother → Rebecca Priscilla Martin (Davis)
her mother → Joseph Davis
her father → Richard Davis
his brother → Nancy Ann Davis (Chiles)
his wife → Henry Chiles
her father → Susannah Martin (Chiles (Childs))
his sister → Brigadier General Joseph Martin, Jr.
her son

They are not the same person. I'm also not aware of any military rank for John Martin, brother of Gen. Joseph. I don't think there's a death location or burial location for the John Martin with the Cherokee wives and children, either. Starr's History of the Cherokee Indians wrongly attached John's children to his brother.

Cynthia Curtis, A183502, US7875087 - do you have a question? As far as I can see, this generation is in order.

Erica Howton calling your attention to the new comment by Kathryn Forbes

I have been offline this weekend and do not know if these are all caught up

It’s all set. Profiles were updated in May 2023 incorporating Kathryn’s notes, and I corrected a misleading curator box.

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