William Dacre, 5th Baron Dacre - Family - conflicting wives

Sources to check:

Citations

• 1.[S10478] Unknown author, The Complete Peerage, by Cokayne, Vol. IV, p. 6; Plantagenet Ancestry of 17th Century Colonists, by David Faris, p. 76.
• 2.[S5] Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry, p. 250-251.
• 3.[S16] Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. III, p. 543.

If this is correct then William Dacre had an earlier partner (?)

http://www.thepeerage.com/p41224.htm#i412239

Joan de Dacre was born in 1374.1 She was the daughter of William de Dacre, 5th Lord Dacre.1 She married Sir Thomas de Musgrave, son of Sir Thomas de Musgrave.1 She died in 1456.1

1. Christopher Davis, "re: Barton Family," e-mail message to Darryl Roger LUNDY (101053), 30 October 2009. Hereinafter cited as "re: Barton Family."

Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study In Colonial And Medieval Families, 2nd Edition ... page 612. < GoogleBooks > Joan, allegedly an illegitimate daughter of William Douglas, 1st Earl of Douglas, mother of Thomas Dacre, Knt., born 27 Oct. 1387.

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/family/LZX8-HMF

“There is no proof that she was the daughter of William Douglas--illegitimate or otherwise.”

I now understand better why thePeerage.com shows

http://www.thepeerage.com/p1743.htm#i17422

Mary (?) married William de Dacre, 5th Lord Dacre, son of Hugh de Dacre, 4th Lord Dacre and Elizabeth Maxwell.1 She was also known as Joan Douglas.2

2. Mosley, Charles, editor. Burke's Peerage, Baronetage & Knightage, 107th edition, 3 volumes. Wilmington, Delaware, U.S.A.: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 2003. BP2003 volume 1, page 1013

At https://www.stirnet.com/genie/data/british/dd/douglas01.php she is called Mary also:

(C) George Douglas, 1st Earl of Angus (d c1403) [son of William] -- m. (1397) Mary Stewart (dau of John Stewart, King Robert III of Scots) -- partner(s) unknown

(v) Joan Douglas. A Joan of this generation is normally shown as wife of William de Dacre, 5th Lord. We provisionally show his wife as Mary of a generation earlier (see below).

• * (D) Margaret Douglas (a 1404) m. Thomas Johnson
  • (E) [[Mary Dacre Mary Dacre] Mary] Douglas possibly of this family, of this generation m. William de Dacre, 5th Lord of Dacre and Multon (b 1357, d c1403)

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Douglas-405 Shows several discussions from respected medievalists about Joan Douglas:

Some interesting links for reference:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2008-06/...

http://genforum.genealogy.com/medieval/messages/1995.html

http://genforum.genealogy.com/medieval/messages/2388.html

http://genforum.genealogy.com/medieval/messages/2390.html

Arguments “pro” include:

• one possibility is that the marriage was organised as part of a settlement to end a long standing feud between the Douglases and the Dacres, and took place around 1385.
• a description is made of the arms and alliances of the stained glass windows once in the castle of Kirkoswald and alledgedly installed by Thomas, Lord Dacre of the North in the sixteenth century. These included all the Lords and their wives including 'William III. married Joane Douglas, ...........buried in Lanercost'. This would be within one hundred years after the death of Thomas Dacre in 1457 who was the son of the marriage. And as every other alliance mentioned is verifiable and not in doubt, are we to disregard this one?

Arguments “contra” include:

• there is no evident proof of this Joan’s parentage-but also there’s really no proof this particular Joan Douglas, as a wife of William de Dacre or daughter of James, Earl Douglas, ever existed at all. The problem stems from earlier derivative sources, The Visitations of Yorkshire for one (1563, 1564, William Flowers, 1881), which on p. 83 (chart) show the wife of William Dacre to be doghter of therl Doglas (sic). Also, the first edition of the Complete Peerage, vol. III (1890), p. 2 stated: he m. Joan Douglas, said to have been an illegit. da. of James (Douglas), Earl Douglas [S.] He d. 20 July 1398.
• This last excerpt was corrected in the second edition of the Complete Peerage, vol. IV, p. 6: : He is said to have m. (g) Joan Douglas.(s) He m. Mary...(i)
• Note in the corrected version the subtle he is said to have (as in rumored to have) versus the statement he married Mary (unknown). Unfortunately, information, good or bad, once released seems to develop a life of its own.
• Note (i) cites a writ assigning Mary, widow of William de Dacre (knight, deceased), her dower. The text dates it 3 October 1399 (he died 20 July 1399) Most social histories of that time period will tell you that such a writ was usually issued within 90 days or so of the death of the husband, as this was. But it identifies his widow as Mary. We have no evidentiary reason to suppose or speculate that Mary was also called Joan or that she was a Douglas.