Evolution of a Myth

Tagging profile for public awareness: Captain William Lee, Esq.

;)

Alice Lee

1. The Lee Y-DNA projects and assignment of Lee of Virginia lineage Haplogroup are flawed:
https://jacquelifinley.com/f/lee-descendants-and-false-y-dna-projec... see exerts below:

Allow Autosomal DNA Testers Into y-DNA (Surname) Projects? Prove Expanded Lines ~ Identify Non-Paternity Events ~ Why Oh Why Would I Research Linear? – Yes! | Cherie Lynn's Herstory (cherielynnsherstory.com)

As Cherie honestly states in her conclusion in her article above:

"Note a comment and answer: I should have noted it was a y-DNA project administrator that got me to test two men for their autosomal. They were both R1b and matched exactly 37 for 37. The finances were tight for both and the next sale we tested the two of them for autosomal and they did not match. We had our answer. Later on both men added more STRs then we saw 64 of 67 – so the added STRs would not have given us the answer – when the autosomal did. >>>>> And with our two families both competing for the same patriarch? They may not be two families they may be a non-paternity event – we are still working to add more autosomal – but several of the men from the two groups are related via autosomal and not in any other explainable way and y-DNA can never prove this – ever. And one of their project administrators had told one family their research was wrong and they were just wannabes – but he was incorrect and I bet he is incorrect about which family actually represents that patriarch."

New comment on Cherie Lynn's Herstory

jacquelifinley MAY 8, 2022 AT 12:40 PM

Exactly what I have been trying to say for years, especially with the Lee Y-DNA projects and how wrong project administrators have been in assigning a Haplogroup for Lee descendants from brothers Y-DNA from Robert E. Lee as the Haplogroup ‘STANDARD’ for all male Lee descendants of Virginia Lees – as Y-DNA CANNOT identify an NPE (Non-Parental Event) in an all-male line, ever, even in WELL DOCUMENTED PEDIGREES … but Autosomal DNA can!

So many real Lee’s of Virginia descendants that have been told they are Lee ‘wannabes’ are now finding out they really are through Autosomal DNA matching even though they were told they were not related to the famous Lees of Virginia.

Thank you, Cherie, very much! Maybe someday someone will be listening to our commonsense logic and give more credence to the capabilities of Autosomal DNA and the limitations of Y-DNA, and not be thinking about profits only … we can only hope as Autosomal DNA has evolved into a very useful genealogical tool in relationship confirmations were Y-DNA has not or has been used to dissect lineages.
Jacqueli Finley
https://jacquelifinley.com/
Liked by 2 peopleREPLY

cherielynnsherstory MAY 10, 2022 AT 7:32 AM

commented on Allow Autosomal DNA Testers Into y-DNA (Surname) Projects? Prove Expanded Lines ~ Identify Non-Paternity Events ~ Why Oh Why Would I Research Linear? - Yes!

In response to jacquelifinley:
Without multiple layers of research on the many Lees, there is no one who could confirm which family group is the y-DNA line and which of the at-DNA multiple matching families and which are just a different family. But this is doable. Jacqueli – great work to press this forward. We need this in all projects. We certainly need more historical DNA sequencing.
I have to pass the mantle for a while. I am a bit puny. But keep me posted!

2. There are no records or evidence of the exact birth years for William Lee and Alice Felton - all genealogies have an about, even Edmund Jennings Lee based on opinion or speculative dates, as all other recorded and published genealogy records for William Lee, son of Richard Lee and Anne Constable, have no precise birth dates only guess work, opinions, speculations.

3. Mary Lee Heath Shriver, daughter of William Lee and Alice Felton, did open probate with the handwritten Last Will and Testament of William Lee as court records show.

4. William Lee's sons were not of age but did take uncle Richard H Lee back to court to reclaim inheritance as court records show, as soon as they were.

5. True that uncle Richard H Lee did not interfere with Hanck or Charles Lee's inheritance - but that is another can-o-worms - but all other siblings, yes, he did. I think EJ Lee calls the agreement between Hancock and Charles exactly that in his book - 'The Agreement' between these three. And I do believe there was nothing about heirs forever with Hancock and Charles ... and not much said about the mysterious way the other brothers died ... BTW - also all 3 are my direct Lee ancestors as well.

6. There is hundreds of Autosomal DNA descendants that confirm this line and relationships - and well within the 8 generations for Autosomal DNA accuracy - and then with the added At and Y-DNA, even better matches combined. These autosomal matches include some Heath cousins as well. ;)

7. Then there is the hashing and rehashing to perhaps cause conflict.

More like "Evolution of a Broken Record"

Geni - Capt. William Constable Lee, Esq. - Col Richard Lee and the Lees of Virginia Lineage - DNA 'Evidence"
https://www.geni.com/discussions/181869

Geni - Alice Lee (unknown) - Alice widow White?
https://www.geni.com/discussions/213634

Geni - William Lee, II - DNA says there's a problem here
https://www.geni.com/discussions/128133

Geni - Captain William Lee, Esq. - This profile is in DIRE need of an "About" Cleanup https://www.geni.com/discussions/213455

There is some missing information in Cherie Lynn's account - just how distantly related *were* the two testees? If they were third cousins or greater - especially *much* greater - there was a very real chance that they would not share *any* autosomal DNA worth mentioning, while still being descended from the same common male ancestor.

Did she unjustly exclude someone for unfair reasons?

What people constantly fail to understand about autosomal DNA is that *it changes constantly*, with every new member of every new generation. It is even theoretically possible - albeit *extremely* improbable - for a full, completely legitimate brother and sister to have absolutely *no* autosomal DNA in common. (The odds make "needle in a haystack" look easy-peasy - but they are not zero.)

*IF* William Lee married an Alice anybody (for which there has never been any primary evidence whatsoever - not an Alice, not a Mary, not any woman of any name - she wasn't Alice widow Felton. *That* Alice was a widow before 1660, and the William LeA whom she married (also before 1660) was certainly born before 1633 and probably before 1630 (no one could buy or sell land in Colonial Virginia who was less than 21 years old, and he was on record as buying land in 1654).

William LeE was born probably fourth of eight children, all produced between 1643 (earliest possible date for the birth of Col. Richard Lee'a eldest son John) and c. 1880. We have John's dates of entry to (2 July 1658) and graduation from Oxford (3 April 1662), which argues that a 1643 birth is probably correct. Second son Richard is firmly dated to 1647, and there is no reason to think there is any room for error. Francis was apparently the third son, probably born circa 1649 give or take not more than one year either way, but nobody bothers about *him* because he went back to England and stayed there. So it is not very likely that William was born any earlier than 1650 (nor later than about 1652, as fifth son Hancock Lee came along in 1653 - year definite, day and month uncertain).

So no, William LeE was most certainly not buying land in Surry County in 1654, nor marrying *anyone* before 1660.

Typo: c' "1880" should read "1660". The light is very bad today.

What I've leaned is that autosomal DNA matches on family tree databases are only as good as the accuracy of the trees that the family tree databases are built from.

Ms. Sara Whitford makes good points about this in the link below:

https://www.eastcarolinaroots.com/be-careful-with-assumptions-about...

Dear Student: The above is true of *all* forms of DNA matches. Bad tree = invalid results.

Thanks, Alex. Some good points here.

Prohibited Content and/or activities includes, but is not limited to Content and/or activities that, in the sole discretion of Geni:

* is offensive or promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual;

* harasses or advocates harassment of another person;

* promotes information that you know is false or misleading....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

To those looking for *real* information: All three current forms of DNA research are as valid as the methodology behind them and the reputability of the company. Each has its purposes and its limitations, as follows:

Y-DNA is passed down the male line exclusively, so can only be used to determine if a *male* testee belongs to a given *male* line of descent. The methodology has been improved to the point where it is now sometimes possible to bracket where a secondary male line branched off from the original line. The essential limitation remains the same: any interruption of the male line, for any reason, nullifies the inquiry.

mtDNA is passed down the *female* line exclusively (though sons can receive it, they cannot pass it on), so can only be used to determine if a testee belongs to a given *female* line of descent. It mutates too slowly to allow bracketing. mtDNA is harder to interrupt (though all sons and no daughters in a given generation will do it for sure), but also harder to track due to the Western custom of wives taking their husbands' surnames.

Autosomal DNA is passed down randomly from *all* ancestors to *all* descendants, but with a lot of information discarded at each pass - so it is really only useful at relatively short range (still 5-7 generations approximately). And if you don't know *all* your ancestors within that range, you can't be absolutely sure what you got from whom.