Amelia Isabel "Mollie" LeNoir House ("Running Wolf"(Westmoreland)) - Maiden name?? doesn't match father's name. And has unproven Indian nickname.

https://sites.google.com/site/lenoirfamilytree/home/origin-of-the-l...

From Thomas Lenoir and his wife, Mourning Crawley, are descended the Lenoir families of the southern states, as well as many families of other names. Of their four daughters,

Ann married Robert Westmoreland and died in Spartanburg county, South Carolina, at the age of 92; Ann Westmoreland

Betty married John Latimer and eventually settled in Hancock county, Georgia; Elizabeth ‘Betty’ Lattimore

Leah married Robert Whitaker and John Norwood, and died in Franklin county, North Carolina, at the age of 94; Leah Norwood

while Mary, the youngest, married William Perry and lived in eastern North Carolina. Mary Perry

Many of the descendants of these lines [above] have been traced, forming an important and worthy part of the Lenoir family.

So three "Lenoir" daughters/sisters are unaccounted for and probably came in with some faulty merges, etc.: Amelia House , Martha Lenoir , and Patty Westmorland

____________________________________________

Of the six sons of Thomas and Mourning, one died unmarried; the remaining five married and raised families.

Robert, the eldest, remained in Brunswick county, Virginia; Robert Crawley Lenoir

Thomas Jr., Isaac and John settled in South Carolina, in the valley of the Wateree River below Camden; Colonel Thomas LeNoir, II Isaac Lenoir John Lenoir

while William, the youngest, remained in North Carolina, where he had a distinguished public career and founded the Fort Defiance branch of the family. General William Lenoir

The only other son listed here is Lewis Lenoir who according to the family genealogy died unmarried, is here incorrectly connected to his brother's wife (whom we have in triplicate, btw): Eleanor Lenoir Eleanor Lenoir Eleanor Lenoir

The five living sons and four daughters (Betty, Leah, Ann, and Mary) are all listed along with their mother, Mourning, in Thomas Lenoir's will. No mention of any other daughters, from what I gather here.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-V49Z-KX?i=241&...

So anyway, Malissa House is married to Littleton Yarbrough on the Ancestry tree, but I already researched and dispute that finding unless someone can show me convincing proof. I maintain that my Yarbrough ancestors are the pair buried in our county, with roots in a different part of Alabama. I think what confuses them is the fact that Isaac was used by more than one branch of the family for naming their sons. So I have to retract my reference above, to Malissa (House) Yarbrough. I don't believe she's our direct ancestor, although quite possibly an in-law.

Therefore I think I can lay to rest any hopes (at this time) of being in any way related to the Lenoirs of NC. That said, their tree is still a terrible mess and I hesitate to go near it because I'm not sure how it got that way.

Thanks Erica, I'll look over it in the next day or so. I'm so glad you were able to take a look at it, I was just overwhelmed.

Here's part of the problem:

Amelia House

Amelia House

Duplicates posing as both daughter and granddaughter of Thomas Lenoir, both married to his son-in-law Thomas House, Sr.

The one incorrectly connected to him as daughter (second one down) should be disconnected from her parents (Thomas and Mourning) and then merged with the duplicate who is their granddaughter (the first one listed, daughter of Ann (Lenoir) Westmorland.

*grandson-in-law (not son-in-law).

William Lenoir was not a Revolutionary War general.

Amelia is a made up person.

The Native American ancestry is made up.

Ann Lenoir did not marry her son Robert Westmoreland.

Some people make genealogy mistakes and some people make stuff up. The majority of Lenoir and Westmoreland trees that you find online are based on the latter.

Debra, I have to congratulate you!

99.9% of the people working on this part of the tree do little or no research and simply copy the mistakes and claims of others. It is refreshing to see someone looking for sources. Welcome to a frustrating world where you will often be alone as the seeker of truth.

Robert T Foster I'm afraid distracted tunnel vision caused me initially to overlook the important research you have done for this family tree, and I do apologize. I appreciate your contributions very much -- past, present and future.

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000062120052357

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000073789864996

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000186279702947

I'm still undecided about Amelia(?) and any possible namesakes connected with her (or any namesakes). I did however find in DAR an Amelia (Unknown) married to a Thomas House of Spartanburg, SC. Their daughter Rebecca married Ezekiel Griffith.

https://services.dar.org/public/dar_research/search_adb/?action=ful...

Published genealogies often focus primarily on one or just a few familiar lines to the detriment of others. So for anyone whose lines have not been documented and recorded, it's almost as if our ancestors never existed, which is a bit sad.

Then again, even in the most thorough family histories it isn't unusual to find occasional minor mistakes or even silly typos, so we have also to keep a sharp lookout for those sorts of errors (which I call 'honest mistakes').

But our Amelia (whoever her parents really are) seems to had been subjected to some imaginative and fanciful ideation which could take months or years to completely rectify. No one enjoys spoiling a fellow family genealogist's fun (or theories), but we must help one another maintain some sort of minimal community standards.

Had Amelia been kept in a more isolated tree without dubious connections to so many other living relatives, it wouldn't matter to anyone not affected by it. But subjecting historical and fairly well documented family trees to that sort of whimsical conjecture is just too chaotic and makes tracing their proven descendants nearly impossible. Too much irrelevant or faulty information tends to scramble my thought processes.

In other words, I nearly had a cow when I found it. I need to see our collaborative work progressing in the right general direction at least. But I am practical enough I don't expect perfection.

In any case, the DAR record (depending on its accuracy), although scanty, seems to provide support for Thomas House's marriage to a woman named "Amelia" and connections with the Griffiths through their daughter Rebecca; and, maybe even with the Lenoirs -- since the families had close generational ties, it can't be ruled out completely.

But as we all know nothing that far back should be claimed without sufficient proof.

As for William Lenoir's military rank, a number of colonels who won important battles were later promoted by George Washington to "general". And Lenoir as Maj. Gen. got quite a nice promotion.

(Anecdotally, I once met and enjoyed some interesting conversations with a very well-mannered gentleman from Mississippi who introduced himself to me as "William Lenoir" and claimed to be a direct descendant of our general here. He was knowledgeable about Lenoir's NC and war history and seemed fairly intelligent, pretty good company...Just thought I'd throw that in, since we're on the subject.)

Erica, thanks! Yes I'll add the DAR reference to Thomas's 'About'.

Hannah House married Thomas Westmoreland, but there is no proof of any connection between Hannah and her parents. Everything is hypothesis. House trees tend to be complete messes.

If you are on Facebook you are welcome to join the Westmoreland genealogy group dedicated to the family of John Westmoreland and Ann Nancy Lenoir. The file section has copies of early records and there are years of questions and answers among the posts. In some cases we can identify the 20th century "researcher" who made-up stuff and in others we can at least find a time frame of when something new appears out of nowhere and without a source.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ThomasHouseWestmoreland/

You're very kind, Robert, thank you!

I found a neat typewritten genealogy by William Lenoir's g-granddaughter, Laura Norwood.

https://archive.org/details/factsdatesfromol00unse/page/n4/mode/1up

But when I went to find her here I noticed that in November of 2020 someone added a ton of unproven children to his profile.

Son of Thomas Lenoir, I and Mourning Crawley
Husband of Ann Ballard
Father of Mary Lenoir; Daughter Girl Lenoir; Major William Ballard Lenoir, Jr; Ann Lenoir; Col. Thomas Lenoir, (Judge); Elizabeth Lenoir; Walter Raleigh Lenoir; Eliza Mira Lenoir; Martha "Patsy" Orilla Lenoir; Sarah J. Lenoir; Francis Lenoir; Sarah Little; Rufus T Lenoir; Albert S LENOIR; James LENOIR; Jacob Lenoir; Jake Lenoir; Dave Lenoir; Martin Lenoir; Ruffin Lenoir; Fonzo Lenoir; Virgil Lenoir; Reddin Lenoir; Amy Lenoir; Silvia Lenoir; Jerry Lenoir; Zelpha Lenoir; Sener Lenoir; Esther Lenoir; Avy Lenoir; Anthony Lenoir; Louis Lenoir; Margaret Lenoir; Miles Lenoir; Peter Lenoir and Leah Lenoir

I don't understand why someone would do that. It caused his wife to have 36 children, most of which have no significant details other than their names. No dates, no locations, no spouses, no children. Just shells. I guess they are the following:

2. Jacob Lenoir
2. Jake Lenoir
2. Dave Lenoir
2. Martin Lenoir
2. Ruffin Lenoir
2. Fonzo Lenoir
2. Virgil Lenoir
2. Reddin Lenoir
2. Amy Lenoir
2. Silvia Lenoir
2. Jerry Lenoir
2. Zelpha Lenoir
2. Sener Lenoir
2. Esther Lenoir
2. Avy Lenoir
2. Anthony Lenoir
2. Louis Lenoir
2. Margaret Lenoir
2. Miles Lenoir
2. Peter Lenoir
2. Leah Lenoir

Think Laura Norwood is the g-granddaughter who published his family history and excerpts from his diary. I'd like to find an unabridged copy of his diary somewhere, and the rest of the family papers that are rumored to be archived somewhere.

Laura Lenoir Norwood

These are William's children according to Laura Norwood:

Mary born March 14, 1772
William Ballard " Sept. 1,1775
Ann " April 5, 1778
Thomas " May 12, 1780 [m. Selina Louisa Avery, who was born Oct. 27, 1788]
Elizabeth " Feb'y 15, 1783
Walter Raleigh " March 15, 1786
Elize Mira " Sept, 20, 1789
Martha " April 7, 1792 [m. 1814 Isaac Pickens, afterward Gov. Alabama; died Aug. 16, 1823]
Sarah Joyce " March 17, 1796 [m. Thos. F. Jones, of SC, and died May 4, 1820]

Another odd child: Baby Girl Lenoir

Thanks for the link to Laura Norwood's work. It is wonderful and deserves to be shared. I'm going to post it in a few places.

The Lenoir papers are kept here:
https://finding-aids.lib.unc.edu/00426/

I've requested digital copies of several in the past, such as a letter from my 5th great-grandmother to William Lenoir. There might be more available online now.