Richard FitzAlan d'Arundel, Knt. - Problems with this entry

Private User

3/17/2023 at 11:08 AM

Hello,
There seem to be some problems with this entry.
First, the surname of the person in question is "FitzAlan", not "FitzAlan d'Arundel". His father's name was John FitzAlan, and his *title* was "Baron Arundel". Upon John's death the barony passed to his eldest son, also named "John FitzAlan" (1364-1390), thence to his eldest son (also "John FitzAlan", 1385-1421), and so on. To be clear: "Arundel" was the title of the barony, not properly part of their particular surname.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_FitzAlan,_1st_Baron_Arundel
Second, "Knt" is a non-standard title, and discouraged in usage on Geni (and elsewhere). If indeed he was a knight, he should properly be styled "Sir Richard FitzAlan". Having said that, I can't find any mention of him being knighted in my resources (but it would not surprise me if he had been so). If you have a source for the assertion of a knighthood, please provide it.
Thank you.

Erica Howton C

3/17/2023 at 12:32 PM

Interestingly, https://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00384610&tree=LEO styles him Sir Richard Arundel, of Wychampton, citing Burke’s & Richardson.

He was knighted:

From https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/FitzAlan-602

Richard served as a king's knight - one of the king's own knights. In November 1401 a tournament was held in London between Richard and someone from Lombardy, with Henry IV commanding a seat to be made for him so he could watch it. [2][3][10]

Erica Howton C

3/17/2023 at 1:43 PM

10. Flag
textsIssues of the exchequer; being a collection of payments made out of His Majesty's revenue, from King Henry III to King Henry VI inclusive
by Great Britain. Exchequer. n 50072750; Devon, Frederick. n 88175577; Henry III, King of England, 1207-1272. n 83148645; Henry VI, King of England, 1421-1471. n 80057239; Great Britain. Record Commission. n 86011655; Great Britain. Treasury. n 80050333; Pell Office (Publication date 1837) pp 288-289. < Archive.Org >

2 th November. — To Richard Cressy, one of the ushers of the King’s hall, of the household, directed to order, at the King’s expense, a royal seat to be made within the place at Smithfield, where a tournament was appointed between the king’s kinsman. Sir Richard Arundell, knight, and a certain Lombard. In money paid to him by the hands of Thomas Lath, in discharge of 14/. 126“. 3 d. which the Lord the King commanded to be paid him for constructing and erecting the seat aforesaid. By writ, &c., —14/. 12s. 3 d.

Erica Howton C

3/17/2023 at 2:31 PM

He styled himself Richard Arundel, knight.

Nicholas Harris Nicolas, Testamenta Vetusta, Vol. I, Nichols and Son, 1826, p. 196.

https://archive.org/details/testamentavetust01nico/page/196/mode/2up

Richard Arundel, Knight', July 8th, 1417. My body to be buried in the Chapel of our Lady in the Abbey of Ro- chester. I will that my executors find one man who, for the good of my soul, shall go to the Court of Rome, to the Holy Land, to the Sepulture of our Lord " et ad sangui- nem sanctum '" in Germany as soon as they well can pro- vide him after my decease. I will that my goods be equally divided between my daughters Philippa, Johanna, Eleanor.

1. It is probable that this Sir Richard Arundel was related to the Earls of that name, but his will does not afford sufficient informa- tion to connect him with that family.

John K Marshall PRO

3/17/2023 at 5:56 PM

My response is a very short synopsis, not necessarily in a cronological order.

The information I am submitting to your inquiry about Richard FitzAlan d'Arundel being a knight is documented in many different ways and the titles he carried including Admiral, Justicular, Sole Commander of the English Army, Constable, Gardian of Prince Edward, and loyal friend of King Edward III, he most certaily was a Knight.

Last, "Arundel was one of the wealthiest nobles, and most loyal noble retainer of the chivalric code that governed the reign of Edward III of England"

10 Rules of Chivalry Everyone Should Consider

"https://www.faena.com/aleph/10-rules-of-chivalry-everyone-should-co...;

I believe this information answers the question of Richard FitzAlan being a Knight.

John Marshall

Erica Howton C

3/17/2023 at 6:50 PM

That’s a different man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Fitzalan,_3rd_Earl_of_Arundel

Richard ‘Copped Hat’ Fitzalan, 3rd/8th Earl of Arundel, 8th Earl of Surrey

Richard FitzAlan, 10th Earl of Arundel is Sir Richard Arundel, of Wychampton's grandfather.

Joaquim Telêmaco Carneiro, [de Mello]

3/18/2023 at 6:19 AM

Sir Richard FitzAlan is my second cousin 16 times removed.

Richard Fitzalan, 3rd Earl of Arundel, 8th Earl of Surrey is my 15th great uncle's grandfather.

Ingrīda Cinkmane (Dzelvīte)

3/19/2023 at 1:08 PM

Sir Richard FitzAlan is your 11th cousin 10 times removed
Richard Fitzalan, 3rd Earl of Arundel, 8th Earl of Surrey is your 9th cousin 13 times removed.

Private User

3/28/2023 at 5:52 PM

Thank you, Erica Howton. I appreciate you having added these sources to his profile.

I wasn't disputing whether or not he had been knighted; as I said, "it would not surprise me if he had been". My issue was with the anachronistic and obscure postnominal "Knt." in his display name. In most other profiles here (as elsewhere), one who is knighted is referred to with the prenominal "Sir" or "Dame". I am advocating for consistency and clarity.

Richard FitzAlan d'Arundel, Knt. - Problems with this entry

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