Bertram de Criol - Timeline from Robert d'Eu to Pasco Curle

Can we start by sourcing Pasco Curle c 1628 in the American Colonies & verifying his parentage, and then 8 - Nicholas Crule between 1563 - 1623 ? Can links to geni profiles be posted?

If we can’t validate those two generations, nobody is descending from - Bertram de Criol circa 1085 anyway.

Was Pasco Curle the son of NIcholas Curle

What profile is the fake son he descends from and east repair is needed?

Yes, I just checked some references. Pasco is missing brothers & it looks like he has the right parents.

Forgive me, but I’m really confused about “fake son”.

are you saying disconnect Robert de Criol as son of Robert d'Eu

MPs on geni do not mean origins are proven.

A later Bertram de Criol (d 1256) has a Wikipedia article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertram_de_Criol

The historian Nicholas Vincent[2] agrees with the Duchess of Cleveland[3] in deriving the de Criol family from Criel-sur-Mer, Seine-Maritime, though Planché favoured Creil, Oise,[4] and Dunlop offered Creully, Calvados.[5] In Battle Abbey Roll lists the Duchesne recension has the name as "Escriols",[6] the Anglicized "Kyriel" appearing in the earlier Auchinleck manuscript.[7] Criel-sur-Mer is likely, because Robert, younger son of Robert, Count of Eu (d. c 1092), obtained it from his father, whose possession of Criel is shown from a charter to the Abbey of St-Michel du Tréport;[8] in the Domesday Survey, Robert de Cruell held Esseborne (Ashburnham), Sussex, from his kinsman the Count of Eu, governor of the Rape of Hastings,[9] and from these the de Criols and the ancient Ashburnham family are both supposed to descend.[10][11] "Bartholomew" de Criol witnessed the confirmation charter of Henry, Count of Eu to Battle Abbey before 1140.[12]

The de Criol family did exist and some used Eu arms.

https://archive.org/details/normanpeopleand00unkngoog/page/142/mode...

It explains the pedigree though perhaps. At some point look for where it originates - 1800s? 1990s? My vote is the Ancestral File, submitted pedigree.

I think real genealogy begins with the Wikipedia Bertram & his father John.

The Battle Abbey Roll (page 12)

https://archive.org/details/battleabbeyrollw02battuoft/page/12/mode...

https://www.stirnet.com/genie/data/british/cc4rz/criol1.php Draft

• Robert de Criol m. ?? (dau of Osbern, son of Letard de Popeshall)
  • 1. Nicholas or Bertram de Criol ( sources conflict)
    • A. Simon or Bertram de Criol
      • i. John de Criol or Kyrriel (d 1229) m. Margery de Spelmoden (dau/heir of John de Spelmoden)
        • a. Sir Bertram de Criol of Croxton Castle (Leicesterhire), Sheriff of Kent (also of Essex & Hertfordshire) (a 1231, 1238, Keeper of Dover & Rochester Castles)

Stirnet cites:

Main source(s): 'The History and Antiquities of the County of Leicester' (John Nichols, vol 2 part 1 (1795 - or 1971, ISBN 0.85409.688.4), 'Pedigree of Criol', p147), 'A Corner of Kent' (J.R. Planché, 1864, p291+), Visitation (Huntingdonshire, 1619, 'Kryell') with a little input/support from 'The Dormant and Extinct Baronage of England' (T.C. Banks, vol 1, 1807, 'Criol', p278+), referred to above as 'Baronage', and further input (shown in italics) from various web sites

I reverted the first Bertram’s name back to the original Robert de Criol.

Descent from him on Geni is pretty much as Stirnet has it. There’s a genealogical controversy at Bertram the Great’s son Nicholas; Wikipedia has him as a relative; everyone else has as a son; Stirnet caveats he could be a brother. I also edited out the name Bertram lll because I see no reference to it. And only one wife is supported (Emma by Stirnet).

Here are those three profiles:

Bertram ‘Great Lord of Kent’ de Criol & Emma de Kennett as parents of Nicholas ‘the elder’ de Criol

“Criol/Kyryel lawsuit dated 1279” (Jan 3, 2019) https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/x4Kkpq6FaEU/m/... Below is a list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Joan d'Auberville and her 2nd husband, Nicholas de Criol the elder (died c.1272): William Bladen, Francis Dade, Gabriel, Roger & Sarah Ludlow, John Oxenbridge.

I think Robert d’Eu as progenitor of the de Criol descent comes from a misreading of the Duchess of Cleves of the Battle Abbey Rolls:

See:

CURLE/KYRLE ANCESTRY I (Apr 4, 1999) https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/7_6T-F3XhLg/m/...

still quoting from Hugh Buckner Johnston's treatise "Some Notes on the
Curle Family" from North Carolina State Library. This part of the
document gets very choppy...lots of hand written notes ( unattributed
and of unknown authorship)....
Page titled "THE KIRIELL OR KYRIELL ANCESTRY" (From Battle Abbey Roll ,
by Cleveland , Vol.II . pp. 11-15) [and the Baronage of England , by
William

---

,London , 1625, pp. 170 or 770 {can't make it out}]

" I. Robert , Count of Eu
II. Robertus de Cruel , became the owner of Criel or Crieul , probably
the present town of Creil which is situated on the Oise River about
thirty miles north of Paris. He [served under William the Conqueror at
Hastings] held , after the Norman Conquest of England , Esseborne (now
Ashburnham) in County Sussex , under the authority of his kinsman , the
Earl of {name chopped off by copy machine} , then Governor of the Rape
of Hastings.
III. John de Criol in 1194 gave the Church of Sarres in Thanet to Ledes
Priory.
1. Bertram
2. Simon
3. William
4. Nicholas , married into the house of Clifford
IV.Bertram de Criel , "Great Lord of Kent" was Sheriff of County Kent
from 1231 to the first half of 1258. He was also Sheriff of Essex and
Hertford , with custody of the royal castles of Dover and Rochester.
1.John 2.Nicholas
~~~~~~~{skip a lot of material that has been too "hashed up" to be
legible..but is basically a recap of people already notated~~~~

V.John de Criol married the heiress of Estwell and died 1262. He served
against the Welsh in 1256 {details are unreadable}
1. Bertram de Criol married Alianor, heiress of Hamo de Crevecoeur
and wife Maude d'Avranches , the great heiress of Folkstone who was
dowered with [manor of Tirlingham] the [Barony or]hundred of Folkstone
and half the manor at Hythe].[{Bertram held }manors of Estwelle and
Asmareffelde{?}] . He forfeited his lands for joining Simon de Montfort
, Earl of Leicester in [Rebellion of

---

]1264 , but {re-instated ?} in
1275.He died in 1294.{Two sons John and Bertram died without issue}
a. Joan de Criol{dau} married Sir Richard Rokesley
A. Joan de Rokesley married Sir William Baude
B. Agnes de Rokesley married first Walter de Patteshull, second
Thomas de Poyning
1. Sir Michael Poynings [unreadable text , dealing with
manors]
VI. Nicholas de Criol served against the Welsh in 1256. In 1262 , he was
appointed Sheriff of Kent and Warden of Cinque Porte and Constable of
Rochester.He married Joan de Auberville , Lady of Westenhanger ,
daughter of William de Auberville
1. Nicholas de Criol attended Edward I during the foreign wars. In
1296 , he was summoned to Parliament [...Baron of the Realm...
unreadable stuff...1301 ratified....to Canons of Long....]
a. Nicholas Criol in 1324 was Admiral of the English Fleet
[appointed......] "

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