Roger de Pitres, Sheriff of Gloucester - FitzOsborne?

Started by Private User on Monday, April 1, 2024
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Curious as to how his father his unknown, yet this profile shows "FitzOsborne". Either his father is unknown (which I believe) or there's a valid rationale somewhere proving otherwise.

Using the history > facts > compare hyperlink from the “about,” I see “FitzOsborne” was manually added to the profile as birth surname & last name on 3/12/2021.

As you comment, there is no claim or justification for this name or a father called Osborne in profile notes, citations, attached sources or documents.

I reverted the name to original values and locked fields.

Ah, it’s from this Source (tree)

https://www.myheritage.com/research/record-10838-13220196/roger-de-...

In GenealogieOnline Family Tree Index

https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/ancestral-glimpses/I27707.php

Roger De Pitres, Sheriff of Gloucester Fitzosborne

Which has good notes but again the fitzOsbourne is unexplained.

Dae Powell, "Ancestral Glimpses", database, Genealogy Online (https://www.genealogieonline.nl/ancestral-glimpses/I27707.php : accessed April 1, 2024), "Roger FitzOsborne de Pitres, Sheriff of Gloucester (1035-1083)".

Is there a reason we shouldn’t have Durand of Gloucester as his brother?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_de_Pitres

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durand_of_Gloucester

Perhaps the Osborn name came into play in this way:

Career

Roger had been a protégé of William FitzOsbern and owed much of his landed wealth to this association. After the death of Earl William in 1071, Roger was more closely associated with the crown. [2]

South Cerney Manor

"Earl W" -- William fitz Osbern, earl of Hereford, who died in Flanders in February 1071, gave the South Cerner manor to Roger the sheriff, Walter's father. [3]

References

  1. WikiTree contributors, "Roger (Pîtres) de Gloucester (abt.1040-abt.1085)," WikiTree: The Free Family Tree, (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Pîtres-9 : accessed 01 April 2024). Cites
    1. Keats-Rohan, K. S. B. Domesday Descendants: A Prosopography of Persons Occurring in English Documents 1066-1166. II. Pipe Rolls to Cartae Baronum. Woodbridge, Suffolk: Boydell Press, 2002. Entry for "de Gloecestria, Roger". pp. 480-481 .'
    2. Source is apparently the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, however, this needs to be clarified and an exact citation needs to be created.
    3. David X. Carpenter. Walter and Miles of Gloucester University of Oxford, 2013. Accessed 8 March 2022 < PDF >… Roger de Pîtres (‘Pistri’), who had been first custodian of Gloucester castle after the Conquest, and all his household, and his brother Durand de Pîtres, who also had custody of the castle, had been buried in Gloucester abbey (Gilbert Foliot, Ep. 372).2

Does anyone know who this is?

Robert of Gloucester de Pitres

FMG's 2024 update does Not show a "Robert of Gloucester de Pitres". Cawley and crew keep clawing away. Like all genealogists, their work will never arrive at resolving everything.

It seems to me that Robert of Gloucester de Pitres and daughters Isabel de Gloucester and Mabel de Gloucester came from source-less echo-chamber websites including FamilySearch, GeniPro, Roots Magic, Geneanet, My Heritage (etc.):—

SEARCH RE ROBERT
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Robert+de+Pitres%22+Gloucester&a...

SEARCH RE MABEL
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Mabel+de+Gloucester%22+1100+&amp...

SEARCH RE ISABEL
https://www.google.com/search?q=Isabel+Gloucester+Pitres+1108+&amp;...

Right, the daughter names seem to resonate, but generations are off?

Perhaps there’s match up down the tree.

Roger & his wife had [three] children:

a) WALTER of Gloucester (-1129 or after[319]). C
b) HERBERT (-[before 1101]).
c) [--- . Her parentage and marriage are established by the charter dated to [1123] which records that "Walt de Gloec" gave Little Hereford in fee to "Willo de Mara nepoti suo"[343], although it is always possible that "nepos" should be interpreted in this document as indicating a more remote relationship than nephew of Walter of Gloucester. m --- de la Mare, son of ---.]

Brother

2. DURAND [de Gloucester] (-[1101], bur Gloucester). … Herefordshire[345]. m ---. The name of Durand’s wife is not known. Durand & his wife had [one child]:
a) [EUDO (-after 1086).

I added brother Durand of Gloucester & son Eudo and daughter N.N. de Pitres & her husband N.N. de la Mare to complete the tree.

Excellent!

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