Walter Comyn, Lord of Badenoch - related

Started by Capt. Joseph Willard Lindsay Haley, III on yesterday
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Never did this LINDSAY think I was related to the Comyn family. I know one of the Lindsay's helped a Kirkpatrick kill the Comyn that Robert Bruce had only wounded in the Kirk, as both were Bruce's officers..

Geni shows me as a direct descendant as well, however there are many, many data conflicts and date inconsistencies in both of our lineages as presented here:

There is a data conflict associated with this profile that may correct this inconsistency.

Data Conflict
Lady Isabel Comyn, Lady of Mure should be born after her parent Isabella of Menteith, Countess of Menteith
Tip: Correct the birth date of Lady Isabel Comyn, Lady of Mure (born circa 1204) or Isabella of Menteith, Countess of Menteith (born circa 1220).

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There are data conflicts associated with this profile that may correct this inconsistency.

Data Conflict
Opie Lindsey should be born after his parent Col. Robert Lindsay
Tip: Correct the birth date of Opie Lindsey (born January 01, 1661) or Col. Robert Lindsay (born 1710).

Data Conflict
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Child was born after parent died (1)
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Data Conflict
Col. Robert Lindsay had a birth date after his parent's (Lady Rachel Lindsay) death date.
Tip: Correct the birth date of Col. Robert Lindsay (born 1710) or check the death date of Lady Rachel Lindsay (died May 09, 1645).

Data Conflict
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Children have different last names (1)
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Data Conflict
Lady Isabel Comyn, Lady of Mure has children with different last names.
Tip: Go to the following profiles to verify and update the last name.
Anicia More, Ronald Muir, of Polkelly

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Event occurred before birth date (2)
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Data Conflict
Col. Robert Lindsay has a birth event listed in his profile prior to his own birth date.
Tip: Go to the profile of Col. Robert Lindsay and review his birth date (1710) and event timeline.
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Married too young (1)
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Data Conflict
Col. Robert Lindsay married when he was only 0 years old.
Tip: Correct the birth (born 1710) or marriage date or marriage status of the profile (Col. Robert Lindsay).
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Person had a child at very young age (4)
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Col. Robert Lindsay had 1 child between the ages of 0 and 15 years old.
Tip: Correct the birth date of Col. Robert Lindsay (born 1710) or the following child:
Opie Lindsey

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Profile data conflicts with source (2)
The birth surname value in a source citation doesn't match the information in the profile for Margery Graham of Fintry resulting in a source conflict. Review the conflict.
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Spouses have a large age difference (2)
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Data Conflict
Col. Robert Lindsay and his spouse Susanna Lindsay are 68 years apart.
Tip: Correct the birth date of Col. Robert Lindsay (born 1710) or the birth date of Susanna Lindsay (born 1641).
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There is a data conflict associated with this profile that may correct this inconsistency.
Walter Comyn, Lord of Badenoch had 1 child between the ages of 14 and 15 years old.
Tip: Correct the birth date of Walter Comyn, Lord of Badenoch (born 1190) or the following child:
Lady Isabel Comyn, Lady of Mure

Data Conflict
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(Clicking on "Consistency Check" located at lower left of the chart reveals a list of inconsistencies in most lines. The serious ones are worth a closer look.)

There's enough here to keep a serious genealogist busy for hours.

Omission is proof of nothing, however for what it's worth MedLands shows NO CHILDREN for Isabel Menteith and Walter Comyn. She has a daughter by her second marriage, Isabel the younger, who married a William Comyn.

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SCOTTISH%20NOBILITY%20LATER.htm#_T...

MAURICE [Murdoch?] (-after 6 Dec 1213). Earl of Menteith. He resigned the earldom 6 Dec 1213 in favour of his brother also called Maurice[74]. “Mauricium comitem de Manenthe” resigned “comitatum de Manethe” in favour of “Mauricium juniorem fratrem eius”, listing the properties which the former would hold for life, by charter dated 6 Dec 1213, confirmed 7 Dec 1213 by William King of Scotland, inspeximus dated 20 Sep 1261[75].

2. MAURICE [Murdoch?] (-[Mar 1226/9 Aug 1232]). “Mauricium comitem de Manenthe” resigned “comitatum de Manethe” in favour of “Mauricium juniorem fratrem eius”, listing the properties which the former would hold for life, by charter dated 6 Dec 1213, confirmed 7 Dec 1213 by William King of Scotland, inspeximus dated 20 Sep 1261[76]. Earl of Menteith. He was one of the seven earls who took measures for the coronation of Alexander II King of Scotland in 1214[77]. "Mauricio comite de Menteth…" subscribed the charter dated 5 Sep 1224 under which Alexander II King of Scotland confirmed the donation to Paisley by "Maldovenus comes de Levenax"[78]. "…Mauricio comite de Menteth vicecomite de Striueling…" witnessed the charter dated 27 Mar 1226 under which King Alexander II confirmed "ecclesia de Kirkintulach" to Cambuskenneth priory[79]. Maurice/Murdoch presumably died before 9 Aug 1232, when Walter Comyn is named “comes de Menteith” (see below). m ---. The name of Maurice’s wife is not known. Maurice & his wife had [two] children:

a) [ISABEL ([1215/20?]-[Jan 1264/1272]). The primary source which confirms her parentage has not been identified. Balfour Paul’s Scots Peerage states that she "is presumed rather than proved to be the daughter of Earl Maurice"[80]: alternatively, Isabel and her sister could presumably have been Maurice’s nieces or even granddaughters. Her birth date is suggested from the date of her first marriage. Ctss of Menteith, suo iure. John of Fordun’s Scotichronicon (Continuator) records the death in 1258 of "Walterus Comyn comes veteranus de Menteth veneno uxoris suæ" (compare Matthew of Paris’s version of his death, see below) and that the following year his wife married "cuidam ignobili militi Angligenæ Johanni Russel"[81]. She and her second husband were kept prisoners until they agreed to transfer the earldom of Menteith to the late earl's nephew John Comyn and were later expelled from Scotland. John of Fordun’s Scotichronicon (Continuator) records that in 1260 "comitissa de Menteth" appealed to the Pope, whose legate reversed the judgment[82]. The Complete Peerage indicates the date range of her death[83]. m firstly (before 9 Aug 1232 or [30 Jun 1233/9 Jan 1234]) WALTER Comyn Lord of Badenoch, son of WILLIAM Comyn Earl of Buchan & his first wife Sarah FitzHugh (-Nov 1258). "Walterus Cumyn comes de Menteith et Margaretta comitissa uxor comitis Henrici…" donated property to Cupar abbey by charter dated 9 Aug 1232 "coram nobis Isabell comitissa, heres legittima Atholiæ…post obitum domini sui Thomæ comitis de Galawayea"[84]. The Complete Peerage dates Isabel’s marriage to Walter Comyn to “seemingly between 30 Jun 1233 and 9 Jan 1233/4”[85]. However, the couple’s marriage before 9 Aug 1232 would best explain Walter being named “comes de Menteith” in the charter of that date. He succeeded as Earl of Menteith, de iure uxoris. Matthew of Paris records that "Walterus Cumin comes in Scotia" died in 1258 after falling from his horse[86]. John of Fordun’s Scotichronicon (Continuator) records the death in 1258 of "Walterus Comyn comes veteranus de Menteth veneno uxoris suæ"[87]. m secondly JOHN Russell, son of --- (-before Jan 1291). Ctss Isabel & her second husband had one daughter:

i) ISABEL Russell (-1306 or after). John of Fordun’s Scotichronicon (Continuator) records the lawsuit at York in 1272 between "Johannem Comyn" and "Walterum Bullok pro comitatu de Menteth", adding that "Willelmus filius ipsius Johannis" had married "filiam comitissæ prioris"[88]. "Isabella wife of William Comyn…in Scotland" appointed two attorneys in the English courts for two years by charter dated 3 Mar 1279[89]. King Edward I granted to "William Comyn and Isabella his wife" rent from "Grocene, which the late John Russel, father of Isabella, whose heir she is, held by knight’s service of William de Monte Caniso" by charter dated 8 Jan 1291[90]. m firstly WILLIAM Comyn, son of JOHN Comyn & his first wife Eva ---(-after 3 Mar 1279). His father claimed the earldom of Menteith of behalf of his son William in 1272 in a lawsuit at York[91]. m secondly EDMUND de Hastings of Inchmahome, son of HENRY de Hastings of Ashill, Norfolk & his wife Joan de Cantelou of Calne, Wiltshire (-killed in battle Bannockburn 1314).

Wikitree, citing a textual reference, shows no parentage or ancestry for Lady Isabel Comyn, Lady of Mure , wife of Sir Gilchrist Mure of Rowallan

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Comyn-284

The children of Isabel Comyn and Gilchrist Mure of Rowallan are also "unknown", according to Wikitree.

On the other hand, the source given by Wikitree, a family history by Sir William Mure, seems to corroborate much, if not all, of their Geni tree. At first glance, anyway. The old language is a bit awkward for me.

https://archive.org/details/historiedescento00mure/page/17/mode/1up...

Mure, using as his own source, "History of Scotland," manuscript, in the hands of the Editor,

States that Sir Gilchrist did marry Isabel daughter of Walter Comyn, and that the family arms provide further proof of the union.

Beyond that, I leave it to someone more interested in trudging through Mure's thickly accented narrative. It would take me probably weeks to get through it.

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