Adele de Soissons - Wives and Children of Gauthier II

A History of the Counts of Brienne (950 – 1210) by Dana Celest Asmoui Ismail. Royal Holloway, University of London (2013) Doctor of Philosophy thesis.< PDF >.

Chapter Three "The New Count of Brienne, Walter II (1125 - 1161) and his Marriage Alliances"

Page 76.

The House of Baudement

Contrary to the suggestion by the authors of the Europäische Stamtafeln (commonly regarded as the authoritative source on the genealogies of the great families of Europe) that Walter married four times, he married only twice. His first wife was Humbeline (sometimes called Adelaide), the daughter of Andrew of Baudement seneschal of Champagne who journeyed to the Holy Land at least on two occasions. 5

5. Evergates, Aristocracy, p. 9. Andrew was given various titles by contemporary sources, however they all connote the position of ‘seneschal’. In the cartularies of Saint Père de Chartres, he is referred to as totius domus sue major [Cartulaire de l’Abbaye de Saint - Père de Chartres, ed. B. E. C. Guérard, 2 vols (Paris, 1840), II, 447]. In the cartulaires of the Yonne, he is referred to as major regiae domus [Cartulaire Générale de l’Yonne,
ed. M. Quantin, 2 vols (Auxerre, 1854), I, 266].

In Geni we show the genealogies as described at FMG Medlands, unless there is compelling reason to show otherwise.

This is the article for the family of GAUTHIER [II] de Brienne son of ERARD [I] Comte de Brienne & his wife Alix de Montdidier (-before 1161).

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chambrien.htm

They show wives:

1. 1st (unnamed, possible)
2. m [firstly/secondly] ([repudiated before 1147]) HUMBELINE de Baudémont, daughter of ANDRE de Baudémont Seneschal de Champagne & his wife Agnes - "[It is possible that Humbeline married firstly Anseric [II] Seigneur de Chacenay."
3. m [secondly/thirdly] (before 1147) ADELAIS, daughter of -

Comte Gauthier [II] & his [first/second] wife had nine children [this document assumes that Humbeline was the mother of all of Gauthier’s children, in line with the most natural interpretation of the various charters which are quoted here. If Humbeline was the same person as the widow of Anseric [II] Seigneur de Chacenay, several of the older children shown here must have been born from Gauthier’s first marriage.]: ...

The older genealogy, which I believe was debunked by the PhD thesis mentioned above, can be seen here, and is no doubt the source of confusion in older Geni profiles. I've added comments in brackets.

https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00028300&tree=LEO

BIOGRAPHY

Gauthier was born after 1095, the son of Crusader Erard I, comte de Brienne, and Alix, dame de Ramerupt. He married five times. [sic: two or three times according to Medlands]

His first [sic: first or second] marriage was to Humbeline (given by some sources as Adélaide) de Baudement, daughter of André de Baudement, seigneur de Baudement et Braine, and Agnès, dame de Braine. His second [sic: no longer accepted as his marriage] marriage was to (Adèle) de Soissons, [sic: Adele (unknown)] who may have been the daughter of Jean I de Soissons and Aveline de Pierrefonds. Gauthier then married a lady of the de Nesle family, [sic: no longer accepted as his marriage] and, after her death in 1137, he married Humbeline de Troyes, widow of Anséric II, sire de Chacenay [sic: no longer accepted as his marriage]. Finally in 1146 he married a lady called Adélais. [ [sic: his second or third marriage; married before 1147.]

He had at least nine children, of whom André, Erard II, Elwide and Mahaud-Alix would have progeny.

There is some uncertainty about the precise identity of the mothers of Gauthier's children.

_Europäische Stammtafeln_ attributes the above four to his first wife, but other sources attribute André and Erard II to his second wife (Adèle) de Soissons. [sic: all 9 children with 1st/2nd wife, Humbeline.]

If this is in agreement, I will reassign the children accordingly.

Well, the 2013 thesis disagrees with FMG Medlands.

https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/18393326/A_H...

Page 80

Humbeline, countess of Brienne, likely died in 1138 shortly after she stood witness to a gift granted by her husband to the bishop of Châlons.

Page 81

The House of Soissons

Walter’s second marriage was to Adélaide of Soissons soon after Humbeline’s death. 32 Adélaide was the daughter of John, count of Soissons, who was the great - grandson of Richard I, duke of Normandy, John’s grandfather having been Richard’s bastard son. 33 Unlike the previous marriage, there survives strong charter evidence in support of this union and perhaps more importantly, to confirm the suggestion that this was Walter’s second and final marriage.

32 Although this second wife’s name is not mentioned until 1146, her children, Erard, Andrew and Marie are mentioned in a charter dated 22 January 1143. Therefore, Walter likely married her shortly after Humbeline’s death in 1138 as within a span of five years, he had three children by Adélaide and they are present as witnesses to this charter [CACB, 40].

Page 87

https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/18393326/A_H...

During eight or nine years of marriage, Adélaide gave Walter three sons for certain and possibly two daughters. 64 The eldest son of this marriage would usurp the patrimony of Walter’s eldest sons from his previous marriage and become Erard II, count of Brienne upon his father’s death. His brother, Andrew, would become count of Ramerupt. Both whom would be acknowledged by chroniclers of the Third Crusade, one praised and noted for his courage and virtue, the other a blemish upon the honour of the dynasty of Brienne. A future son, John, would go on to become abbot of Beaulieu. 65 A daughter, Marie, would disappear from record after 1152. And yet another daughter would marry Barthélemy, lord of Vignory, a crusader who died along with his brother Guy of Vignory, at the siege of Acre in 1191. 66

63 Nesle, II, 6.
64 Erard, future count of Brienne, and his brother Andrew, along with their sister, Marie, are first mentioned in a charter whereby they witness their father approve the rights of the abbey of Bassefontaine [CACB, 41]. John, abbot of Beaulieu, does not make an appearance in the charters until his brother’s tenure as count [CACB, 60].
65 Gallia Christ, XII, 615B and CACB, 60.
66 Cartulaire du Prieure de Saint - Étienne de Vignory, ed. M.d’Arbaumont. (Langres, 1882), {St.Etienne}, pp. 80 - 1: HCC, IV, 53 - 4. His brother, Guy of Vignory, would serve as the inspiration to the chansonnier, Colin Muset [J. Longnon, Les Compagnons de Villehardouin (Geneva, 1978), p. 4]. At the moment of his departure for the Second Crusade, Barthélemy made a donation to the abbbey of Beaulieu [St. . - Etienne, p. 46]

Sharon Doubell

This needs more than my eyes on because of the discrepancies with Medlands.

Hope you have a chance to look over the University thesis. https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/18393326/A_H...

To recap, the current thinking is Walter ll of Briennes (d. 1160) (probably) had 2 wives, not 5, as you'll see on Wikipedia.

The Peerage (citing Burke's) is garbled.
Europäische Stamtafeln is outdated.

The first was Humberline de Baudemont, daughter of Andre de Baudement & his wife Agnes, and possibly the widow of Eustache de Mareuil. Humberline died or was repudiated 1138 / 1149.

Medlands assigns 9 children to her.

Ismail (2013) shows 3 children, Agnes, Guy & Eustache, and the rest of the children with 2nd wife, Adélaïs de Soissons daughter of Jean I, comte de Soissons

Medlands does not show this parentage for Adelais.