Hebrew Names

Private User,
the "naming practice" most common on the shared tree is to have names in BOTH languages, or rather ANY language that was personally relevant to the person being profiled. So if a person never had a Hebrew name, then transliterating their name is meaningless revision of history. That said, if the relatives or descendants feel the Hebrew version is relevant to them, that too is OK.

But there ARE many users (mostly newer ones) who do not yet understand the concept of a shared-tree, so make these changes. There are also a FEW rotten apples who knowingly do this. The later is considered deleting information entered by others, and thus treated as sabotage and can lead to users being suspended.

So are you still seeing this issue? If you are, please feel free to send me a private message, and I'll look into it.

Shmuel-Aharon Kam,
Geni Curator

Like David, I'm also "related" - your 3rd cousin and my wife's 3rd cousin married a brother and sister.

I'm going to open this thread up again, rather than repost a question. -- What do people think is the best way to include both Hebrew and English names?

I'm thinking of my Israeli relatives, because really they have no connection to English, and they would be more likely to find themselves with Google. But I would like to have both Hebrew and English in there, while staying uniform with what others are doing on Geni.

I like this profile's formatting which includes both Englsh and Hebrew, but I don't know how to do it:
Rabbi Meir Katzenellenbogen, Maharam of Padua

Shmuel-Aharon Kam (Kahn / שמואל-אהרן קם (קאן and Yigal Burstein are our two veteran curators who have 4 or 5 years Geni experience in creating bilingual Hebrew - English profiles. I see that for the Maharam (my 13th ggf by the way), Yigal put the name in English and the Hebrew in the suffix field. I know that there is a trick in terms of the order you type or cut and paste the items in, since I have done a lot for Arabic and a few for Hebrew myself.

Another approach is to put English in the Name fields and put Hebrew in the Display Name or vice versa. I do not think either Shmuel or Yigal follow this practice (which I did with Arabic).

Hopefully they will give you a more complete answer with the various approaches, pros and cons, and lessons learned.

I agree with Shmuel. On the global tree, names should better be readable to most users. English is the major international language of communication therefore names on the Big Tree should be in English/Latin fonts first. Any second non-Latin fonts language is welcome. therefore we usually add the Hebrew names (in Hebrew fonts) as second language names, preferably in the same name boxes of the first language. Suffix is sometime used for special professional titles etc.

We wished for prefix and second language name boxes - but these seem not to be of high priority at Geni.

In private trees, some newcomers and some veterans insist on using only Hebrew fonts names. I personally reject merge-requests for those profiles/trees to the Big Tree, to avoid any "takeover" by one language (Geni algorithm) which usually irritates the other user(s).

see e.g. Mahral of Prague / המהר"ל מפראג

MaHaRaL of Prague - המהר״ל מפראג

In Israel, almost all local sold PCs (Macs as well) have dual font keyboards, so for us it is very simple to type both languages. I sometimes get requests from colleagues abroad to add the Hebrew font names to the English font names.

For users who cannot read Latin fonts - searching the Big Tree would be a problem, therefore we try to add Hebrew fonts wherever we believe Hebrew fonts might have been used in past generations, but that was not true for most older generation names (except perhaps for Rabbis names etc)

Even if it's complicated for some to type in a name in Hebrew, for major figures, there is Wikipedia and you can cut and paste.

For more recent generations, non-famous people, such as family members, I have also put the Hebrew names sometimes in Also Known As.

Shalom Private User,
the "trick" is technically relatively simple.
1) I write the names in both languages in each field.
2) I prefer to put a / slash between each version of the name. It makes it easier to read, especially when you have different languages with same alphabet, such as English and French.
3) When names get complicated or include a title, I will also write the while name out, in each language, in the Display Name.

So using myself as an example, my profile has:

Name: Shmuel-Aharon / שמואל-אהרן
Last Name: Kam / קם
Birth Surname: Kahn / קאן

Display Name: Shmuel-Aharon Kam (Kahn) / (שמואל אהרן קם (קאן

Shmuel-Aharon Kam (Kahn / שמואל-אהרן קם (קאן - I also have places I used the "/" (slash) -- but since creating those profiles, I have read that GEDCOM reads/treats the slash as meaning 'next field' -- is this true? And is this a reason to avoid it?

Private User,
I don't think that that is a real issue. I DO know that people have copied the Geni's Biblical Tree "wholesale" into MH. I'm pretty sure this was done using a GEDCOM from Geni.

@Shmuel-Aharon Karn (Kahn),
I am trying hard to work seriously on my wife's family tree. I find that many entries are in Hebrew. It happens that, like many people if not most, I cannot speak Hebrew nor read Hebrew script. I am therefore unable to identify the profiles by their Western names or, where editing or mergers are required, to deal with them. Am I the only one to be frustrated by the use of non-Latin scripts for what is supposed to be a worldwide database? Sorry to say it, but it seems to me to be both insular and offensive. Short of contacting every single manager involved (and crossing my fingers that they speak English and are willing to reply), what do you suggest?
I even managed to identify one profile and attempted to edit it by changing the default language to English, but Geni would not let me do that.
As matters stand I am the manager for one second cousin (and close friend) who I have just discovered has two other profiles, both in Hebrew, as do his parents, sister etc. Obviously they should be merged, but I am unable to do that sensibly because I can't read the comparative data.
If I should be posting on another board, apologies, please advise.

Peter - have you tried the new "add language" function yet? It's pretty nifty. Profile view > Edit > basics > add language > (select English for a profile in Hebrew) > type in the name in English as you know it. Save. Both language names will show without over writing each other.

http://www.geni.com/blog/new-on-geni-multilingual-profiles-386125.html

Peter - would say you found a totally apropiate thread for what you want to discuss!!

Sounds like what you may want, in addition to Erica's suggestion, is to ask if there is anyone who reads and writes both Hebrew and English and is willing to serve as intermediary and/or translator to and for you. Would not be surprised if we had Geni members who would be willing to help you out that way.

And/or folks who can direct you to a fairly good translation program, so you can tell what the Hebrew is saying.

Erica - thanks but 'add language' doesn't help! If I find a profile for יותר טוסט בבקשה or من أنت , how am I supposed to know who that is in English?
I did find one profile I was able to identify, and I tried changing the default language from Hebrew to English. No good, it still displays as Hebrew so I still can't get a full picture of the tree.
Lois - the intermediary route is a fudge. Of course I could rope people in who could translate for me. It's not only an imposition (whether they're friends or Geni members) but more to the point it's cumbersome and has to be done one profile at a time. What I want to see is the names of Fred Bloggs's or Hymie Cohen's children, their wives and their issue, all at one time on one screen and in readable form. Is that really so unreasonable?
I even discovered that I can cut and paste a profile into Google Translate - but it misses the point, wouldn't you agree.

OK, here's an example: Private, my wife's great-aunt. Take a look at her tree. Lots of her descendants are [...completely illegible...] except to the minority of Hebrew readers. Unless you laboriously go through them one by one, with the help either of someone who can read Hebrew or of Google Translate, the result remains double-Dutch.
Statement of opinion: That's absolutely wrong, it's not fair, it should not be.
Question: What remedy does Geni have to offer for it?

Peter,

If someone adds the English language name to the profile using the new feature that Erica linked to, then Geni will show you the English name.

If you know the English name for any of them, you can add that yourself. Other wise you'll need to rely on others to fill it in.

Jonathan

With respect I think you are missing the point. Namely that "someone" (presumably the profile manager) habitually does NOT add the English name. So how am I supposed to?? I don't know who these people are! And I should, they are my wife's flesh and blood!
Plus: Forgive me if I have got this wrong, but as I understand it Geni is intended in principle to be an anglophone website. (Show me one discussion message that's not in English...) From what I have found so far, Geni may allow you to enter the English name, if you edit each individual profile adding English language and drill down, though usually it will not save those details. But at all events, what it will not do is display the names in readable Latin script on the family tree. It will simply go on defaulting the tree display to Hebrew as before. If you are conversant with Hebrew, try it for yourself and see.

Peter,

Geni is an international website. It works in whichever language you have selected as your default. There are many discussions in other languages.

The ability to do data entry in multiple languages is a very new ability. I would guess that many of these profiles that you are having an issue with were created before that was available.

I have looked at Blanche's tree and I don't see any of the public profiles defaulting to Hebrew. Blanche herself for me is in English and has Hebrew names entered. I do see some private descendant profiles that appear to be in Hebrew, but I can't view them to determine if they have English names entered.

Have you tried reaching out the the manager(s) of the profiles via the messaging system to work with them?

Jonathan

This is what I see:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c2ygnn1a53tnvk1/Screenshot%202014-10-18%2...
Let me know if you see anything different. If so, would you like to theorise why that should be so?
Or are all those profiles in Hebrew private? If so, how did you ascertain that, and how would you suggest that I ascertain that?
And in any case, as they are plainly immediate family, why should they not be *automatically* visible to me in English/Latin [even just in transliteration]? Just to remind you, I still have no real idea who they are. I do not think it is reasonable for me to have to go to the trouble of approaching the manager of each one individually and asking these questions. For all I know, the managers and I don't even have a common language. Then there are the managers who never reply.
Sorry if I sound frustrated. I AM frustrated.

Peter

Unfortunately there "is no such thing" as an automated transliteration of names in Geni. And to be honest, if you've ever used google translate & see what it does to names, you wouldn't want it; translate programs will do things like change the name "Saurerbrient" into "sauerkraut."

As a step you could send the Geni page through Hebrew to English google translate & see what it gives you, but that would be a hint only.

Not quite true about there "is no such thing" as an automated transliteration of names in Gen, - take a look in the alphabetic sorting in the Public Genealogy Directory, http://www.geni.com/directory/people/a.html

Very helpful, thank you.

Peter [John Peter] Lobbenberg - Re: “… as I understand it Geni is intended in principle to be an anglophone website." -
-This is where your mistake comes in -- Geni is intended to be international, with each person able to enter in his/her own language.

re: "(Show me one discussion message that's not in English...) “ - I regularly ignore those because, like the "typical American" I can only read English - But - here are two recent ones:
http://www.geni.com/discussions/107376
http://www.geni.com/discussions/105443

re: "What I want to see is the names of Fred Bloggs's or Hymie Cohen's children, their wives and their issue, all at one time on one screen and in readable form. Is that really so unreasonable?"
--- No more unreasonable than that someone who only reads Hebrew wants to see them in a form he finds readable, someone who only reads Spanish want to see them in a form he finds readable, someone who only reads Russian wants to see them in a form he finds readable, etc. Unfortunately, the technology does not exist to really do that. Instead, each person gets to enter in the language they believe is correct for the person, and/or they are more comfortable in. And now, due to the new change -- they or others can enter the info separately in another language.

Yes, it is frustrating to not be able to read the names of your supposed (or for certain) relatives - but nobody is doing anything wrong by having those names in Hebrew. And if you are simply wiping out the Hebrew that somebody else has entered and replacing with English - that would almost certainly be wrong - especially now that they have the possibility for multiple languages.

We are very lucky that Geni has devised a way now that our Russian or Hebrew or Spanish-speaking relatives can have names of shared relatives in their language and we can have them in English.

I read Hebrew and Spanish and have relatives who are Argentine, Israeli, and probably Russian (as well as French and Brazilian).

I agree that before we had this great multilingual names capability, it was a problem for an Israeli to have the name of an Argentine ancestor either in Hebrew characters or even in the Hebrew equivalent when the person lived and died in Argentina.

Now, however, Geni has given us a means to satisfy everyone.

Happy to help any relatives with Hebrew when needed. Also to help Israeli relatives with how a name "looks" best in English. Eg who decided that Petach Tiqwah was right and not Petach Tikvah as it sounds. My only request (I am a happy English teacher!!!) is that everyone writes names with a capital letter at the beginning and then uses small letters as it helps with matches. Am Yisrael Chai (sorry can't type in Hebrew font at home!) Shavua Tov...a good week to you all.

Deborah, would be very appreciative if you could help with these two sisters names, Belidina and Boshka. Last name is Paioff. Trying to help a very distant cousin and tie into a great grandfathers 1st. wife.

Thanks,
Elyse

I have found them on the tree but can't find any Hebrew attached. How can I help Elyse?