John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester

JOHN, second Lord Yester, fell at Flodden in 1513

2nd Lord Hay of Yester.

Was knighted before 15-Feb-1503/04.

Died in Battle of Flodden

From Darryl Lundy's page on John Hay of Yester:

http://www.thepeerage.com/p26266.htm#i262660

John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester1

• M, #262660,
• b. circa 1470,
• d. 9 September 1513
• Last Edited=8 May 2011

John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester was born circa 1470.[1]

He married Elizabeth Crichton.[1]

He died on 9 September 1513 at Flodden Field, Northumberland, England, killed in action.[1]

He was the son of John Hay, 1st Lord Hay of Yester and Elizabeth Cunningham.[1]

• On 4 May 1482 he had a charter of the territorial Barony of Snaid, Dumfreis-shire.[1]
• He held the office of Sheriff Depute of Peebles.[1]
• He was invested as a Knight before 15 February 1503/4.[1]
• He succeeded to the title of 2nd Lord Hay of Yester [S., 1488] before 23 October 1508.[1] In 1512 he acquired the rest of the Yester lands.[1]
• He fought in the Battle of Flodden on 9 September 1513.[1]

Children of John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester and Elizabeth Crichton

• 1. Christian Hay+[1]
• 2. John Hay, 3rd Lord Hay of Yester+[1] d. bt 12 May 1543 - 19 Jul 1543
• 3. Thomas Hay [1]
• 4. John Hay of Smithfield [1]
• 5. Elizabeth Hay [1]
• 6. Jean Hay [1] d. Jun 1564

Citations

• 1. [S37] Charles Mosley, editor, Burke's Peerage, Baronetage & Knightage, 107th edition, 3 volumes (Wilmington, Delaware, U.S.A.: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 2003), volume 3, page 3960. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 107th edition.

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From Castles of Clan Hay: Yester:

http://www.clanhay.net/CASTLES/Yester.php

In 1513 Baron Yester and his kinsman Hay Earl of Erroll of Slains castle, near Aberdeen gathered their forces together and marched south with King James IV of Scots (1488-1513) to harry the north of England. The King was also joined in this venture by several other noble Lairds, the aged Archibald 'Bell-the-cat' Douglas of Tantallon castle. Lord Borthwick of Borthwick castle (the King's cannon commander) , Lord Lyndsay of Byres castle, near Haddington and the Border veteran Lord Home of Home castle.

The Scots crossed the river Tweed at Coldstream, stormed Wark castle, bombarded Norham castle with 'Mon's Meg' (great bombard held today at Edinburgh castle) into surrender, seized Etal castle and burnt down Ford castle after the King spent several days dallying with Lady Heron of Ford. This was a ploy on Lady Heron's part, by detaining the Scots King in her bedchamber it allowed the English Borders time to assemble their forces at Newcastle and Alnwick. As the Scots sat inactive encamped at Flodden hill, Archibald Douglas suggested the Scots army should either advance further into England or withdraw altogether. The King insisted that Douglas leave if he was too old to fight. Furious Douglas departed leaving his two sons George and William to fly the Douglas colors at Flodden

When the English did arrive they began filing across the valley towards Branxton ridge cutting off the Scots retreat route. Lord Borthwick pleaded with the King to let him fire a barrage on the English before they reached the other ridge. King James dismissed this suggestion as unchivalrous and insisted a salute was fired to acknowledge their arrival. Interestingly this salute was viewed as incompetence by the English who assumed the Scots gunners were firing over their heads unable to gauge their position. Lord Lyndsay begged the King to allow him to charge with his horsemen down the hillside to divide the English before they could assemble. Once again the King refused the sound guidance of his men and threatened to hang Lord Lyndsay from the gate of Byres castle on his return to Scotland if he did not hold his position.

After the English had assembled and heralds had exchanged various demands a short cannon bombardment between the armies ensued in which the Scots came off worst. Lord Home's mounted Borderers charged across the valley and routed the English right flank. Instead of following up this success the Homes simply collected booty from the dead and fled the field. Lord Home suggested let the King do as well. King James leapt from his horse planning to lead his pikemen on foot. The Douglas brothers implied that this was lunacy. Angered by this rebuke the King tore his royal surcoat from his breast plate to show that he was fighting as an ordinary man-at-arms and demanded that his nobles climb down off their horses and descend on foot with the pikemen. The nobles did as they were commanded, King James IV, the Douglases, Baron Yester of Yester, Hay Earl of Erroll and many other Lords were all killed.

From the English Wikipedia page on the Battle of Flodden:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Flodden

There were various conflicting accounts of the Scottish loss. A contemporary French source, the Gazette of the Battle of Flodden, said that about 10,000 Scots were killed,[3] a claim made by Henry VIII on 16 September while he was still uncertain of the death of James IV. Italian newsletters put the Scottish losses at 18 or 20 thousand and the English at 5000.

Brian Tuke, the English Clerk of the Signet, sent a newsletter stating 10,000 Scots killed and 10,000 escaped the field. Tuke reckoned the total Scottish invasion force to have been 60,000 and the English army at 40,000.[26]

George Buchanan wrote in his History of Scotland (published in 1582) that, according to the lists that were compiled throughout the counties of Scotland, there were about 5,000 killed.[2] A plaque on the monument to the 2nd Duke of Norfolk (as the Earl of Surrey became in 1514) at Thetford put the figure at 17,000.[2]

Notable men who died included:

• James IV , King of Scots (1488–1513); died in battle
• Alexander Stewart, Archbishop of St. Andrews and Lord Chancellor of Scotland; died in battle
• John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester; presumed died in battle, body not recovered

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John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester, was the son of John Hay and Elizabeth Cunningham As Sir John Hay of Snaid (Dumfrieshire) he was sometime Sheriff Depute of Peeblesshire; he was knighted before 6 Nov 1498. He succeeded as the 2nd Lord Hay of Yester before October 1508.

John died at the Battle of Flodden on 9 Sep 1513.

Research Notes
The 19th century book "Genealogie of the Hayes of Tweeddale" has few sources and none for the person profiled here. This said, perhaps both its support for some elements and contradiction with other elements should not be given much weight.

Sources

• Hay, Father Richard Augustin, "Genealogie of the Hayes of Tweeddale", Edinburgh: Thomas G Stevenson,1835, Archive.org, p. 21
• Hay, Father Richard Augustin, "Genealogie of the Hayes of Tweeddale", Edinburgh: Thomas G Stevenson,1835, Archive.org, p. 22
• The Scottish Nation by William Anderson, Edinburgh, 1867, vol.ix, p.584.
• The Complete Peerage by G. E. Cockayne, revised & enlarged by the Hon. Vicary Gibbs, edited by H. Arthur Doubleday, Duncan Warrand, and Lord Howard de Walden, vol.vi, London, 1926, p.423.
• The Peerage: John Hay
• Domestic Annals of Scotland by Robert Chambers, FSA Scot., 3rd edition, Edinburgh, 1874, vol.1, p.264-5.
• Burke's Peerage, Baronetage & Knightage edited by Peter Townend, 105th edition, London, 1970, p.2687.
• Wikipedia: John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester
• Wikidata: Item Q21997559, en:Wikipedia

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JOHN HAY

Provost of Dundee

Genealogy

Stirnet: Beaton 03