Theodrate d'Italie

/!\ 01 Settembre 836 (35-36) Death date coming from noob merge duplicate tree full of errors /!\

- http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ITALY,%20Kings%20to%20962.htm#Pepin...

6. THEODRADA ([800/810]-after 810). "Adailhaidem, Atulam, Guntradam, Berthaidem ac Theoderadam" are named as daughters of Pippin by Einhard[635]. She arrived at the imperial court before 814. [According to Winkhaus[636],

one of the last four daughters married LAMBERT I Comte de Nantes, son of WIDO Comte et Marquis de Nantes & his wife --- (-Ticino 30 Dec 836), but the source on which this is based has not been identified.]

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Ben M. Angel(C) notes: Theodrada (as spelled in FMG's Medlands) may or may not have been wife to Lambert of Nantes. The only thing that Medlands says is that her or one of her four other sisters/half-sisters was his wife.

= Reviewing the different Wikipedia pages for Lambert of Nantes:=

• Brezhoneg (language of Breton): No data, but sources are offered up.
• Català (Catalan): Data, but no sources - no conclusion on which wife either.
• Deutsch (German): No conclusion, but lots of sources.
• English: The conclusion is "Adelaide of Lombardy, the eldest daughter of Pepin of Italy", but no sources are given.
• Français (French): The conclusion is "Théodrade d'Italie", with the following footnote:

Fr: Eduard Hlawitschka, donne Rotrudis comme épouse de Lambert et mère de ses enfants. Il fait d'elle une fille de l'Empereur Lothaire Ier

En: Eduard Hlawitschka places Rotrude as the wife of Lambert and mother of his children. This makes her a daughter of Emperor Lothair I.

(Unclear about what this means, as there is no Rotrude referred to in the passage.)

Sources

André Chédeville & Hubert Guillotel La Bretagne des saints et des rois Ve-Xe siècle Editions Ouest France (1984) (ISBN 2858826137)

Noël-Yves Tonnerre Naissance de la Bretagne. Géographie historique et structures sociales de la Bretagne méridionale (Nantais et Vannetais) de la fin du VIIIe à la fin du XIIe siècle, Presses de l'Université d'Angers Angers (1994) (ISBN 2903075589).

Régine Le Jan Famille et pouvoir dans le monde franc (VIIe-Xe siècle) Tableau généalogique « Les Widonides » p. 441 . Publication de la Sorbonne (1995) (ISBN 2859442685)

• Galego: No information on marriage or children.
• Russian: The conclusion is Theodrada, likely based on an interpretation of what is said in FMG's Medlands:

Брак и дети (Marriage and children)

Wife: Theodrada, daughter of Pepin, King of Italy.

Children:

1. Lambert II (d. 852), Comte de Nantes 843-846, 849-851

2. Guido I (d. 860), Duke and Markgraf of Spoleto c.842

3. Doda (d. around 846), Abbess of the Convent of San Clemente in Nantes and Craon.

4. Werner (Warnarius) (d. 853), Comte in Breton

Литература (Literature)

Chédeville André, Guillotel Hubert. La Bretagne des saints et des rois Ve-Xe siècle. — Editions Ouest France, 1984. — 423 p. — ISBN 2858826137

Tonnerre Noël-Yves. Naissance de la Bretagne. Géographie historique et structures sociales de la Bretagne méridionale (Nantais et Vannetais) de la fin du VIIIe à la fin du XIIe siècle. — Angers: Presses de l'Université d'Angers, 1994. — 625 p. — ISBN 2903075581

Le Jan Régine. Tableau généalogique «Les Widonides» // Famille et pouvoir dans le monde franc (VIIe—Xe siècle). — Publication de la Sorbonne, 1995. — P. 441. — ISBN 2859442685

NORTHERN ITALY: DUKES and MARCHESI of SPOLETO: LAMBERT (англ.). Foundation for Medieval Genealogy. Проверено 20 июля 2009.

• Ukrainian: No family information.

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Results: The French and the Russian authors seem to like Theodrada, while the English author liked "Adelaide" (presumably Adula, as Adelais is already figured to be bride of Billung), as bride of Lambert of Nantes.

To be honest, none of these produces much confidence in their answers. The Russian version cites sources, but seems to rely on FMG, which placed the marker for Lambert on Theodrada merely because she was the last sister in the list. The other two do not provide sources. (The most thorough, the German, does not go out on a limb to name Lambert's wife.)

Conclusion: Probably best to leave Theodrada as the designated wife for now, until more conclusive evidence is produced (if ever it is).

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As an interesting aside, all of the Wikipedia articles list the cause of death for Lambert as that of an epidemic, while FMG lists it as an earthquake.

A3.B4 Carloman, renamed Pippin (April 777–8 July 810)], King of Italy [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne. CARLOMAN [Pepin] (777-Milan 8 Jul 810, bur Verona, San Zeno Maggiore). King Pepin had one illegitimate child by Mistress (1):

A3.B4.C1 Bernard ([797]-Milan 17 Aug 818, bur Milan, San Ambrosio). Thegan's Vita Hludowici Imperatoris names "Bernhardus filius Pippini ex concubina"[627]. He was confirmed 11 Sep 813 at Aix-la-Chapelle as BERNARD I King of Italy. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ITALY,%20Kings%20to%20962.htm#Pepin...

King Pepin had five [illegitimate] children by [Mistress (1)].

A3.B4.C2. Adelais ([798]-after 810). "Adailhaidem, Atulam, Guntradam, Berthaidem ac Theoderadam" are named as daughters of Pippin by Einhard[628]. She was taken from Italy to the imperial court in 807[629]. same person as…? AEDA . The Carmen de Primordiis Cœnobii Gandersheimensis names the wife of "Liudulfus" as "Oda…Francorum…de stirpe potentum, filia Billungi…atque Aedæ"[630]. Her precise origin is mentioned in the charter dated 885 by which "Oda comitissa, Pipini regis Italiæ ex filia neptis, Hliudolfi Ducis vidua" founded Kloster Calbe an der Milde, although the accuracy of this document is not known[631]. m Billung, son of ---. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ITALY,%20Kings%20to%20962.htm#Pepin...
A3.B4.C3 Adula ([800/810]-after 810). "Adailhaidem, Atulam, Guntradam, Berthaidem ac Theoderadam" are named as daughters of Pippin by Einhard[632]. She arrived at the imperial court before 814. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ITALY,%20Kings%20to%20962.htm#Pepin...
A3.B4.C4 Guntrada ([800/810]-after 810). "Adailhaidem, Atulam, Guntradam, Berthaidem ac Theoderadam" are named as daughters of Pippin by Einhard[633]. She arrived at the imperial court before 814. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ITALY,%20Kings%20to%20962.htm#Pepin...
A3.B4.C5 Bertraide ([800/810]-after 810). "Adailhaidem, Atulam, Guntradam, Berthaidem ac Theoderadam" are named as daughters of Pippin by Einhard[634]. She arrived at the imperial court before 814. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ITALY,%20Kings%20to%20962.htm#Pepin...
A3.B4.C6 Theodrada ([800/810-after 810)]. "Adailhaidem, Atulam, Guntradam, Berthaidem ac Theoderadam" are named as daughters of Pippin by Einhard[635]. She arrived at the imperial court before 814. [According to Winkhaus[636], one of the last four daughters married Lambert I Comte de Nantes, son of WIDO Comte et Marquis de Nantes & his wife --- (-Ticino 30 Dec 836), but the source on which this is based has not been identified.] [http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAROLINGIANS.htm#_Toc240955192]

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http://www.our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p343.h...

http://www.our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/ui05.h...

Жена: Теодрада, дочь Пипина, короля Италии.

Дети:

1. Ламберт II (ум. 852), граф Нанта 843—846, 849—851

2. Гвидо I (ум. 860), герцог и маркграф Сполето с 842

3. Дода (ум. после 846), аббатиса монастыря Сен-Климент в Нанте и Краоне

4. Вернер (Варнариус) (ум. 853), граф в Бретани

Ссылки (Links)